View source for Testwiki:Proposed deletions/Archives/2023

{{Talkarchive}}

== [[Index:Elmer Gantry (Grossett & Dunlap).pdf]] ==
{{closed|1=speedy deleted as duplicate and redundant — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:21, 14 January 2023 (UTC)|text=
There is already an incomplete transcription of this on Wikisource ([[Index:Elmer Gantry (1927).djvu]]), which is from the same publisher and is a better quality scan [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 08:33, 7 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:29, 15 January 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Humphrey William Freeland]] ==
{{closed|1=converted to a redirect|text=
I created an author page for '[[Author:Humphry William Freeland]]' not realising there was one as Humphrey William Freeland. I believe his correct name is Humphry (without the 'e') as this is the spelling used in those of his books where his name appears in full. He is 'Humphry' in 'Men at the Bar', but not in 'Alumni Oxonienses: the Members of the University of Oxford'. He is 'Humphry' in his death registration (https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/information.pl?r=89155488:5376&d=bmd_1669206295).
All internal links to author:Humphrey William Freeland have been corrected so this author page can be deleted.
The entry for him on Wikidata, 'Humphrey Freeland', needs correcting to his full name, but I don't have rights to do this. [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 12:26, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
:I changed it to a redirect instead. [[User:Yann|Yann]] ([[User talk:Yann|talk]]) 13:26, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:29, 15 January 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music]]==
{{closed|The wikilawyering on display here, as well as holding this text hostage to your entirely personal interpretation of copyright law, has passed into unconstructive territory now. G6 does not apply at all as the text is not a copyvio and nobody has suggested that it is, much less argued that. G2 is a safety-valve to avoid the need for repeated community discussions when content has previously been deleted, not a requirement that it be speedily deleted or prevented from recreation. So this discussion is ''speedily closed'' as lacking merit, having been made on very questionable motives, forum-shopping an already open parallel discussion, and not serving the community. Redacting the two copyrighted appendices has always been the preferred way to handle this; and then you can argue for ''additionally'' adding the two appendices.|text=
Speedy deletion declined. See also [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions#Undelete_Campbell_v._Acuff-Rose_Music_and_relevant_page:s|copyright discussion]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 21:49, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
*'''Speedy keep'''. The previous discussion concerned potentially infringing content contained in appendices to the case. The version that I have uploaded excludes the appendices containing this content. There is literally nothing on this page other than the public domain text of the decision of the court. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 21:53, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
**[[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]]: This page (and the related Index: and Page:s) were deleted over copyright concerns, and protected from re-creation. They should remain deleted until the conclusion of that discussion. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 21:56, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
*** {{re|TE(æ)A,ea.}} The discussions solely concerned the content of the appendices, which reproduce the lyrics of the songs the court was examining. There has ''never'' been a contention in any of these discussions that the actual text of the case, exclusive of those lyrics, should be excluded from this project. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 21:59, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
****[[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]]: And yet there ''is'' a contention as to said appendices. It is my position, which has been vindicated in the file deletion discussion, that the appendices were not properly excluded; and a victory in the copyright discussion here will enable the entire file and all work, &c., to be restored. As this would necessarily involve overwriting your work, which is just a low-quality copy-and-paste job, I would like to see it deleted. You are an administrator, yes? My text (proofread against the scan) can be taken from the revision history of the various Page:s—but again, any such outcome should wait until the conclusion of the copyright discussion as it would otherwise confuse the issue. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:04, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
***** Is it your position, then, that the text of the case must be excluded until the fate of the appendices can be resolved? Wikisource is not a suicide pact. There is no need to punish the readers by denying them the text of the case merely because the discussion of the appendices is dragging on. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:10, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
******[[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]]: Yes, I do think that, especially as the deletion discussion on Commons has concluded, and determined that the appendices are ''not'' problematic, copyright-wise. I am not the person preventing the opinion from being hosted; it is the administrator who has interfered in the discussion and repeatedly deleted the transclusion, Index:, and Page:s. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:16, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
******* If the content ends up getting restored over my work, I am fine with that. What I am ''not'' fine with is the exclusion of the case text altogether pending the outcome of the discussion over the appendices. There is no basis in policy for such an exclusion while the other matters are being discussed. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:23, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
********There certainly is a “basis in policy”—this page is subject to deletion under speedy deletion rules G2 and G6, because it was previously deleted (G2) as a copyright violation (G6). That only ''some'' of the material was under consideration, is no bar to this rule; it applies to the whole work. As you know, the work is currently the subject of an undeletion discussion; and works subject to an undeletion discussion, which has not concluded, should not be re-created before the (positive) conclusion of said discussion. Your desire to separate the work, and defeat my purpose, cannot avoid the basic procedural rules here. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:27, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
********* I have no intent or desire to "defeat your purpose"; this isn't about you. [[User:BD2412|<span style="background:lightgreen;color:inherit;">''BD2412''</span>]] [[User talk:BD2412|'''T''']] 22:36, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:43, 25 February 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Avon Fantasy Reader/Issue 05/The Gold Dress]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Unfortunately I have to nominate my own posting and all its transcluded pages ([[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/62|62]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/63|63]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/64|64]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/65|65]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/66|66]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/67|67]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/68|68]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/69|69]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/70|70]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/71|71]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/72|72]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/73|73]], [[Page:Avon Fantasy Reader 05.djvu/74|74]]). The story was first published in the ''Cosmopolitan'', July 1942, according to the [http://www.philsp.com/homeville/fmi/n00/n00580.htm#A1 Galactic Central]. The renewals for the Cosmopolitan turned out to be listed as "[https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopy19693232libr/page/nundefined/mode/1up?view=theater Hearst's International Cosmopolitan] in the copyright catalogs and that's why I missed it. --[[User:Nonexyst|<span style="color:red">N</span><span style="color:orange">o</span><span style="color:yellow">n</span><span style="color:green">e</span><span style="color:lightblue">x</span><span style="color:blue">y</span><span style="color:purple">st</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Nonexyst|<span style="color:green">d</span>]]</sup> 23:22, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:Nonexyst|Nonexyst]] Could you link to the page in the Catalog of Copyright Entries where you found the renewal? E.g. https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopy19693232libr/page/152/mode/2up —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 17:50, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

::{{ping|CalendulaAsteraceae}}, https://archive.org/details/catalogofcopy19693232libr/page/396/mode/1up?view=theater --[[User:Nonexyst|<span style="color:red">N</span><span style="color:orange">o</span><span style="color:yellow">n</span><span style="color:green">e</span><span style="color:lightblue">x</span><span style="color:blue">y</span><span style="color:purple">st</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Nonexyst|<span style="color:green">d</span>]]</sup> 21:12, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Nonexyst|Nonexyst]]: Thanks! In that case I'd say you can speedy the text and its transcluded pages as [[WS:CSD#G6|CSD G6]]. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 22:01, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Nonexyst|Nonexyst]]: Speedied as copyvio. But you'll need to redact the DjVu too. Are you fixed for tools to do that, or do you need me to do it? [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:30, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
::::: I have the tools, and I will redact the djvu over the following 24 hours. --[[User:Nonexyst|<span style="color:red">N</span><span style="color:orange">o</span><span style="color:yellow">n</span><span style="color:green">e</span><span style="color:lightblue">x</span><span style="color:blue">y</span><span style="color:purple">st</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Nonexyst|<span style="color:green">d</span>]]</sup> 13:38, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:54, 8 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Translation:The Roubayyat bi Omar Khayyam]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted, per nom. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 8 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
This Wikisource Translation has been incomplete (the [[The Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam|Rubaiyat]] is about a thousand verses) and abandoned for well over a decade. It purports to be a translation from a previously published French translation into Scots, but the Scots looks kinda iffy to me (not an expert, could be wrong). It also lacks scan-backing and is not connected to a Proofread original version at frWS, in violation of the translations policy. And just for good measure it looks like it contains some user annotations in violation of the annotations policy. We have several previously published English-language editions of this work in various states of quality and completion, so it's not like we're gagging for a user translation. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 17:17, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

:{{vd}} Agreed. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 17:52, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:56, 8 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:Index:I am not alone (Andersson paper).pdf]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:57, 8 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Per the concerns raised at Scriptorum.

There have been some very serious ethical concerns raised about the work, and the work in question has been retracted.

Whilst Wikisource is not generally censored, it should also in my view not become a platform by which material with a high potential for harm remains in publication (even though it has been retracted), or by which it could be seen to inadvertently support unethical (or potentially illegal) practice.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:04, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The paper meets the inclusion and licensing requirements; I need say no more. And [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: come up with a better excuse next time. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:17, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
*:@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]]: Please do not personalise the issue. Given the concerns raised it would be inappropriate to ''not'' open a discussion here about this text. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:16, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

: [[Author:Adolf Hitler]]? [[Author:Martin Luther]]? [[Author:Mao Zedong]]? [[:Category:Eugenics]]? [[The Story of Little Black Sambo]]? We document history, we don't edit it.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:19, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]]: Sure. But there's a difference between historical material and contemporary material. And this text was retracted ("unpublished") by the publisher, making the application of the ''previously published'' criterion… ambivalent. Had the article been "real" science censored for obviously illegitimate reasons I'd be all for keeping it no matter the research area, but having suffered through actually reading it it can be summed up as "this one guy jerked off to weird Japanese porn comics and wants everyone to know about it." I'm actually more offended by the crap science and the crap peer review at ''Qualitative Research'' (this should never have been published in the first place for that reason), than the subject matter.{{pbr}}What I'm saying is our usual "no censorship!" knee-jerk is not the best approach to this. There appear to be some legitimate issues to explore that, no matter the outcome for ''this'' text, may help us deal with other controversial or sensitive texts in the future. Because as Brewster Kahle and Elon Musk are discovering, ''not'' taking an ethical stance is in itself an ethical stance when there exist actors who play by different rules. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:35, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
::: It was published; there's no question of that. It was also widely read. It has some marginal cultural value in that it was what was loudly retracted and argued about. I hate reading some blog or similar website and finding some vehement discussion about some article that no longer exists. It's also a historian's complaint; we know of many of the historical orthodoxy (or future orthodoxy) opponents only by reports of how they are wrong, not what they said. I'm not a huge fan of anticipating problems before they start, instead of tailoring the solutions to the problems.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 22:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
:: As I said neither Wikisource nor Commons is generally Censored, some of the specific issues here being:-
::* Wikisource should be applying the same high standards as the original Journal, in re-evaluating the work, given that ethical concerns HAD been expressed, leading to the work's retraction.
::* It was the original journal that retracted the work (not a random third party or external agency), hence it would be entirely professional and respectful of that Journal's editors, to consider if retaining it at Wiksource was appropriate, given that continued republication here might have the perception of being prejudicial to the very clear good faith, and clearly ethical intentions, the editors of the Journal had in retracting a "controversial" work
::* That by continued republication without a careful review, Wikisource could be subjected to external restrictions, or face a critically negative reception from potential participants, partners or external sources of opinion.

If deemed appropriate, has an admin sought an opinion from the appropriate WMF contacts ?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:19, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
*[[User:Xover|Xover]]: I’m not “personalising” the issue; I was responding to the nominator. The only reason this discussion is possible is because the work was released digitally. If “Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children” was released under a free license, I would have proofread it, notwithstanding the fact that the paper was later retracted. I also don’t think that hiding the existence of this paper is an ethical command, especially when it was the journal itself than censored it; I’m sure the journal wants all traces of this article gone, so they can brush under the rug the problems with their work which caused the paper to be retraced in the first place. You and [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] give too much credit to the editors of the paper and their “good faith” in getting this paper retracted: whatever their stated intentions, it looks a lot better for the journal to ''not'' have this paper on their Web-site. And more specifically in response to your comments, Wikisource should not be applying ''any'' standards to works; otherwise, the clear biases of the abovementioned will have writings they philosophically disagree with (Nazi papers, Communist literature, or whatever) removed after any “personalised” “high standard” of review. I don’t think, especially given that the paper was only retracted ''after'' public outcry, that it is “entirely professional” to defer to the journal’s conclusion. As for your final comment, that’s not something we’re in a position to discuss. If WMF wants to censor us, that’s their concern, if not prerogative; we should not debate the merits of such a decision. I find it rather disheartening that I have to defend free speech, not just against the WMF, but also against other editors here. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:47, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
*:I am of course quite prepared to defer to consensus once it's been established what it is.
*:I'm greatly encouraged that you are willing to defend your position vigorously, and in your expanded response you've presented some exceptionally clear responses to some of the issues I stated were in play
*:[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 17:51, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

If copyright allows, perhaps a suitable compromise would be to transclude the retraction notice (and if it does not; a summary of it) at the ''head'' of the transclusion of the actual work, and on the same page? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 15:17, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

:Yes. The retraction notice doesn't contain anything objectionable of itself. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:19, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
: I have no problem with that.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 15:59, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
*[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]], [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]], [[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]]: I don’t believe that the retraction notice is freely licensed. The CC licenses all require attribution, of course, and the attribution in this case would likely be to the editors of the journal. However, the [https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/14687941221096600 DOI for the note] still lists Andersson as the author, even though he is not the author of the retraction notice. Thus, I believe that the license given applies only to the original note, and not to either the removal note or the retraction notice. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
**Giving attribution to "The editors and publisher" should suffice; it's written in their voice. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 21:22, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

<del>Not the uploader</del>, and not familiar with Wikisource policy. But I want to leave a brief comment here. I opposed deletion at Commons (and not just because it was in use) and I am inclined to oppose deletion here too. This paper (which does not contain any problematic personal information or anything like that) should be retained (with a clear indication of retraction) so that future researchers can learn what sort of issues cause a paper to be retracted and how those issues might be missed. Also, we have one user here who thinks this is not legitimate science; others may not agree.

After writing this, I noticed that [[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] made similar comments above, and I endorse those comments. I also give special mention to [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]]. [[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] ([[User talk:Brianjd|talk]]) 23:57, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
: <small>{{noping|TE(æ)A,ea.}} was identifying themselves as uploader (at Scriptorium), not me; I misread that. [[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] ([[User talk:Brianjd|talk]]) 05:02, 12 December 2022 (UTC)</small>

*'''Keep''', I think. I am not necessarily opposed to the idea of having an ethical standard for the deletion of works; I can perhaps imagine something ethically repugnant (but not illegal) that might be a reasonable candidate for deletion. However, I don't know if this paper is the test case for that standard. The journal's rationale for retraction was, it seems to me, that to continue hosting it as a serious piece of research would legitimize unethical and harmful behavior; that a journal has a responsibility to publish ethically responsible research. Journals have editorial standards, so anything published in a journal gains greater legitimacy almost by default; it's probably judicious for them to be very careful with ethics. Wikisource, however, does not have any such editorial policy beyond some loose criteria ([[WS:WWI]]) and some legal obligations. As such, a work hosted on Wikisource does not necessarily gain any legitimacy. It's not endorsed in any way by the editors. Under this theory, hosting the paper here would not ''legitimize'' unethical behavior, but merely ''document'' it. If ''Nature'' were to publish an article supporting [[w:intelligent design]], doing so would legitimize pseudoscience—but Wikisource could host the same article without that concern.<ref>Under this model, any editorial policy we adopt would cause all the works allowed on the site to gain the legitimacy of meeting the Wikisource ethical standard. It would be a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a sense: An ethical editorial standard exists because it's unethical to host works that promote unethical behavior; it's unethical to host works that promote unethical behavior because doing so would lend them legitimacy; doing so would lend them legitimacy because an ethical editorial standard exists.</ref>{{pbr}}This paper can be unethical in at least two ways: it may have been created unethically, or it may advocate for (lend support to?) unethical behavior. If the former, it would be unethical for the journal to publish it because doing so would implicitly endorse unethical research practices; if the latter, because to publish it would legitimize advocacy for unethical behavior. I don't think either case holds for Wikisource. I think we can publish such a work without endorsing either the way it was created or the message it delivers.{{pbr}}'''TL;DR''': Scientific publication implicitly legitimizes and endorses a work, but Wikisource publication does not. We can host it as long as we display it without endorsement. [[User:Shells-shells|Shells-shells]] ([[User talk:Shells-shells|talk]]) 07:37, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

:* '''Keep'''. I believe in following Wikisource's non-censorship policy, and we can't just hide stuff like this under the rug and forget about it, it needs to be preserved so people can find it, see that something like it ''was'' published and that it somehow passed peer review, we can't let something like that be forgotten due to a redaction. [[User:Reboot01|Reboot01]] ([[User talk:Reboot01|talk]]) 11:33, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
{{reflist-talk|title=Notes}}
* I'm leaning {{vd}} for the various reasons outlined by Xover and ShakespeareFan00. I think it's fine to keep on Commons, but I can't imagine a retracted paper can still be considered "published" under any normal sense of the term. I understand where the folks on the other side of this are coming from, but I just don't fully agree. &#8211;<span style="font-family:CG Times, times">[[User:MJL|<span style="color:black">MJL</span>]]&thinsp;[[User talk:MJL|‐'''Talk'''‐]]<sup>[[Wikisource:WikiProject/Connecticut Coordinating Center|☖]]</sup></span> 00:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
** You can't "unpublish" a work in any real sense; you have to stop it from being distributed in the first place. This has clearly had "copies offered to the general public"; they can retract it, not unpublish it.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 03:09, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
*'''Keep''', per arguments by Prosfilaes. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:12, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:57, 8 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Ode to a Skylark]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:59, 8 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Unsourced version of a poem we have [[To a Skylark (Shelley)|three other scan-backed versions]] of. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:41, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

:{{vd}} Sure is. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 00:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
:{{vk}} The first page of the source is the image on the page ([[:File:Houghton MS Eng 258.2 - Shelley, To a Skylark 1.jpg]]); pages 2-6 are on Commons. This is the manuscript so, may be different to printed versions. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 15:47, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
::Note that this version's text differs significantly from the manuscript, especially in punctuation and capitalization. Even the first line differs significantly; compare "Hail to thee, blithe spirit--" with "Hail to thee blithe Spirit!" Moreover, the stanza beginning "Higher still and higher" does not appear in the same location in the two versions. There are plenty of other visible differences between our text and the manuscript text; these are just two of the most obvious. It would be nice to have a transcription from the manuscript, but this isn't it. [[User:Shells-shells|Shells-shells]] ([[User talk:Shells-shells|talk]]) 01:30, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} The image from the manuscript was added later: https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Ode_to_a_Skylark&diff=5055485&oldid=4660312&diffmode=source after the text. No problem if someone wants to import the commons into an index and scan back the manuscript version. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:13, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:59, 8 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:Oriflamma/tmp]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept.  User space working page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
User space transcription, last edited 2015 for corrections, but not otherwise substantially edited for at least a decade. 
Seems to be a duplicate or draft of [[:The World as Will and Representation/Third Book]] which ideally should be migrated to the volumes of the relevant work we have as [[:Index:The World as Will and Idea - Schopenhauer, tr. Haldane and Kemp - Volume 3.djvu]]
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:45, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:30, 11 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:LegalBeagle/sandbox]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept. User-space working page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:31, 11 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
These seems to be a draft/duplicate transcription of [[Circular No. 3591]] that hasn't been substantially edited since 2013.  [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:31, 11 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Ein Yaakov (Glick)]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted.  Long-abandoned multi-volume work, consisting mainly of the front matter from volume one, with no scan to back it. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Long abandoned work, started in 2008, and only a few chapters of a multi-volume work. Not scan-backed, and contributor no longer around. Notes say that the files are available for download in PDF, and the site noted does host downloadable files. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 05:02, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:23, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:40, 11 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Translation:Journey to the West]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted.  Abandoned original translation page, but with no translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:43, 11 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Abandoned (and actually never really started) almost 4 years ago. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 00:58, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

:* {{vd}} per nom. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:25, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
:* {{vd}} Is there content besides the redlinks? [[User:Shells-shells|Shells-shells]] ([[User talk:Shells-shells|talk]]) 22:47, 2 February 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:43, 11 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Browning v. Carroll]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept.  Bot import errors have been corrected. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Bot import seems to have mangled both the text and references. I've attempted to repair but it would be better to delete and start again with KNOWN edition and scan. 

I am suspecting that plenty of other cases imported at the same time have related issues.
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 11:08, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
*Now that you’ve repaired it, it’s fine. It would be worse to delete it than to keep it. Not many are like this; it was just a problem where a reference swallowed the majority opinion. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:06, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
*:SF's [[Special:Diff/12702254|edit]] removed 37k characters. What were these? Is this text complete, or is it missing chunks?{{pbr}}BTW, I'll note BenchBot imported rather a lot of these with tons of problems with, among other things, references. All of them are also in a custom format rather than reproducing a previously published edition, and without its normal publishing context. We are, in other words, here serving as a poor man's findlaw with unreliable texts of the cases we host and huge holes in our coverage. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 16:06, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
**: https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Browning_v._Carroll/Opinion_of_the_Court&oldid=12702308 is where some of the text went.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 16:15, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:53, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:AR elaine riot.jpg]]==
{{closed|1=Deleted.  Extract without identifiable source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
(With Page: and File:) This is the headline of a newspaper article, which is an unacceptable extract. The source given in the file points to a different article, and this article cannot be found on that page. As there is no source, and it is an incomplete extract, it should be deleted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 17:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:22, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Category:BDA:Army Officers ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:23, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
I do not use this I made it by mistake. [[User:Chiraq Bears|Chiraq Bears]] ([[User talk:Chiraq Bears|talk]]) 11:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:Chiraq Bears|Chiraq Bears]] You can speedy this as [[WS:CSD]] G7. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 00:46, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:23, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:Ham II/Sandpit]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept.  User blanked the page, solving the issues. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Non- scan backed, userspace transcription of a Blake Poem, Not substantially edited in over a decade.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:25, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:Ping [[User:Ham II]], for info. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 15:39, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
::I don't think Andy's attempted ping worked, so… @[[User:Ham II|Ham II]]: Do you still need [[User:Ham II/Sandpit]] here on enWS for anything or can we just nuke it? Alternately, I suspect it got nominated because it contains a lint error somewhere so just blanking it would keep it from showing up in LintErrors and maint. cats. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:17, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
:::{{re|Xover}} Gosh, I've got no recollection of the ping; if I did read this nomination, I must have had quite the New Year's Day hangover! Thank you for chasing this up. I'm not active on Wikisource these days, but am on Wikipedia, Wikidata and Commons. This sandpit had an unfinished transcription of Blake's ''[[Europe a Prophecy]]'' plus another one of [[:File:On Homers Poetry On Virgil, copy F, c1822 Morgan Library and Museum.jpg|this single-page polemic by him]]. Both texts are now on Wikisource, I see – the latter as [[Life of William Blake (1880), Volume 2/Prose writings/Sibylline Leaves]] – so I've blanked the page and it can be deleted. [[User:Ham II|Ham II]] ([[User talk:Ham II|talk]]) 15:25, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[1927 New Jersey state highway renumbering]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. User-created work compiled from bits of several sources. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:30, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
This transcription, which dates back to 2005, was seemingly arbitrarily compiled from various New Jersey edicts to fit a single historical narrative (the renumbering of various state highways in New Jersey in a particular year). I am finding little evidence that this ("1927 New Jersey state highway renumbering") is in and of itself a ''work'', and in fact the title was just taken from the Wikipedia article {{w|1927 New Jersey state highway renumbering}}. The link given as a source is a dead link, and I'm not finding any archives of it.

It would be good if the edicts referenced were properly transcribed in full (and were scan-backed). But I don't think it's appropriate to compile them in the way that this has been, by modern Wikisource standards. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 02:33, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
*This is an old (1927) version of [https://casetext.com/statute/new-jersey-statutes/title-27-highways/chapter-276-state-highway-routes-set-forth/section-276-1-state-highway-routes-set-forth this law]. The 1953 renumbering mentioned in the “see also” section was erroneously deleted (apparently without discussion), and should be restored. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:36, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
:: It was not removed. It was moved to the header template. And it also was not erroneous. "See also" sections should never be in the mainspace. These "See also" and "External links" sections are modeled after Wikipedia article structure when they are erroneously ''added'', but they're just not appropriate for Wikisource. The Wikisource mainspace is for transcribed content only. "See also: 1953 New Jersey state highway renumbering" was not part of any law so it shouldn't be in there. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:43, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
::*[[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]]: I’m sorry, I meant that [[1953 New Jersey state highway renumbering]] was “erroneously deleted (apparently without discussion), and should be restored.” It shouldn’t have been in a “see also” section (probably part of a portal, under current standards). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 17:13, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} as a arbitrary compilation / annotation. As the notes field on the text says, it contains a few parts of that original 1927 bill (16 out of ~100+) but mostly consists of a user-compilation of other data (e.g. some of it is dated 1929). The 1953 text was deleted without specific reasoning so it's hard to tell what the grounds were (it was in a copyright discussion, but no specific argument was provided why this particular text was not eligible for EdictGov). Looking at the deleted revisions it looks suspiciously like a user-generated list of changes to highway numbering rather than an actual bill (there's no preamble, its notes indicates changes marked with an asterisk "were not signed", suggesting individual bills rather than one mammoth bill, etc.). For either of these texts we'd need to find a scan of the actual original text that it purports to be a transcription of in order to properly check both copyright status and whether it has been previously published. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:58, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:30, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Home! Sweet Home! (1984)]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted, per nom. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:33, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
We have at least 4 other versions of this poem that are scan-backed from works that are unambiguously and in their entirety in the public domain. And it is not scan-backed, so there's virtually no way to ensure textual accuracy without having to buy the entire book.

The entire book I'm talking about, by the way, is apparently a '''1984 collection''' called ''The '''Illustrated''' Victorian Songbook'' which is very ''very likely'' not in the public domain in its entirety. I don't see the poem text itself as presented here having any copyright issues, but given that the original book is ''illustrated'' the entire book itself is likely to prove itself quite a problem for scan-backing.

It just doesn't seem like there's any point to keeping this around, if there are 4 other scan-backed versions available, with 3 being proofread already, given all the weirdness and issues I just mentioned. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:10, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} Agreed. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 03:54, 9 February 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} per nom. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:07, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:33, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[L'Envoi (Kipling)]] ==
{{closed|1=Converted to redirect; contents transferred to [[L'Envoi]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:10, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
This is a disambiguation page. However, it does not list titles called "L'Envoi (Kipling)", but rather titles called "L'Envoi". Can I please please please merge it into [[L'Envoi]]? (Please) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:50, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
: {{ping|Londonjackbooks}}, {{ping|Chrisguise}} this discussion may concern you —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 17:52, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
:I assume that is because they are different works, all by Kipling, with the same title but different contents. I don't have a strong opinion about whether we should have such second level disambiguation pages versus redirecting Title (Author) back to the Title disambiguation page in such situations. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:24, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
:: Yes you are correct. We generally merge these author-specific disambig pages into the primary disambig page, and I hope to do the same here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 18:38, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]], @[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] @[[User:Londonjackbooks|Londonjackbooks]] I was followed practice seen elsewhere on Wikisource (although as I type this I cannot bring an example to mind). There are also lots of instances (usually on 'versions' pages) where the title of the page isn't the correct name of the work, rather it is given as Title (Author surname). [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 05:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
:::: Versions pages are different than disambig pages. If we have multiple pages, including versions pages, that have the same name, then they will be disambiguated as "Title (Author)" (for works by different authors) or "Title (Date)" (for editions of the same work) - but the disambiguation page that lists all of these pages will be simply "Title". —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 12:58, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
:::::Well we can't use "L'Envoi (Kipling)" because it isn't unique... it does seem suboptimal for a link to that used to point to "Title (Author)" to now point to "Title" instead as a double redirect whenever we find a second work by the same author with the same title. It would be good to document this on [[Help:Disambiguation]] to make this clear going forward. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 14:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
:::::: Yes, "L'Envoi (Kipling)" is too ambiguous to use for a versions page, and too specific for a disambig page. I personally would redirect it to "L'Envoi", though some longtime editors would prefer to delete it outright (note: double redirects should be, and will be, updated to point to either "L'Envoi" directly, or to the specific work that used to be located at "L'Envoi (Kipling)"). I did think we had documentation about this at some point, with dozens of examples mostly based around [[The Raven (Poe)]], though I can't find it at the moment&mdash;the closest I can find is [[WS:MOS#Disambiguation, versions and translations pages]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:51, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:10, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Hannes Walter]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. Recent author with no known works in PD. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
This may be an old page, but there's no reason to keep an author who has no apparent freely licensed works, who has no US works or prior to 1989, and who died in 2004. In the US and EU, with current laws, his works will leave copyright in 2074.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:26, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} we've deleted such authors in the past —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 14:10, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} not within our author scope if not linkable to reproduced works. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 00:32, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Manuscript of Dr. Ellington]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted, per nom. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:48, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
I failed to find any information about both the work and its alleged author, so it is most probably out of our scope. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 13:45, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
: Agreed.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 14:25, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} I started looking into this when it was posted, but had to pause and forgot to come back to it. I also failed to find anything and suspect that it is fanfic at best. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 18:32, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:48, 13 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[1990 Census Name Files]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 15 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
This is a severely incomplete dump of a US Census Bureau website, containing only a tiny fraction of the data, and that is sourced to the Internet Archive archive of the website rather than the website itself. It is also mainly raw census statistical data (apart from the cover page), so strictly speaking out of scope. But mostly it's just pretty pointless for us to (badly) mirror the Internet Archive's mirror of a born-digital website which was subject to USGov archival regulations to begin with (you can still FOIA-request those pages and expect to have them handed over). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:26, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
*'''Keep (weak).''' This page ''is'' in scope, and the <code>dist.all.last</code> directory is also technically in scope, by being an accompaniment to the main report. However, I do not think the table listing should be hosted, and I certainly think a listing of the first one hundred items in that list is more definitely so. However, excluding the somewhat related attachments, the page is complete, and connects to other pages. I would prefer neither of the pages be deleted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:43, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
:{{vk}} born digital file that our "open" government persists in publishing in pdf. when you have reliable data link, migrate to commons data. --<span style="font-family:Papyrus;">[[User:Slowking4|Slowking4]]</span> 亞 <span style="font-family:UnifrakturMaguntia">[[User_talk:Slowking4|Farmbrough's revenge]]</span> 17:49, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 15 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Les Propheties]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; scan exists and is now linked from the Main page of the work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
It is supposed to be a 1961 translation, but without scan it is an unattainable goal to keep the work faithful to this edition, as people keep adding more alleged prophecies taken from elsewhere,  like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Les_Propheties&type=revision&diff=12155372&oldid=12135276 here], or removing them, like [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Les_Propheties&type=revision&diff=12503587&oldid=12438156 here], and nobody stops them, probably because this particular translation is not available anywhere and so no addition or removal of parts of text can be checked. I believe that works of similar kind always have to be scanbacked and therefore suggest deletion of this one, which will create space for adding some of many other, better available, translations. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:07, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' (for now). I will try to obtain and scan a copy of the 1961 translation, and a match-and-split can solve this problem. I ask that it not be deleted too quickly. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:13, 24 July 2022 (UTC)
* {{vd}} But always happy to hold off on such deletions if someone is actually willing to do the work required to save it. @[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]]: Please keep in mind though, that, given the current random state of the text, we're talking about actually ''proofreading'' all of it. Just moving the current unverifiable mess to Page: and retranscluding it does absolutely nothing for us. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:33, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
**[[User:Xover|Xover]]: Quick update: I’ve picked up a copy of the book in which the translations were published, and have confirmed that it is in the public domain. I will be able to scan it soon. It also contains a fair amount of text beyond the actual translation, but it’s not necessary to proofread that to be able to keep the work for right now. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:51, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
**I really hope to get this scanned in either this week or next week. [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]]: I looked at the two examples you provided to see whether they were true additions. There are only ten centuries which survive in whole; however, within the “Duplicate and Fragmentary Centuries,” there are some additional prophecies, including two from an eleventh century and a number from a twelfth century. The prophecies of the twelfth century are not numbered ordinately, and there are noticeable gaps in the original. All of the prophecies added by the first IP, including the one removed by the second IP, are forgeries, and are not to be found in Leoni. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:09, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
**[[User:Xover|Xover]]: I have scanned the book; the scan is in five parts (owing to page limits on scans), but one was too large to upload locally (but see [[:File:LeoniToCentIII.pdf|1]], [[:File:LeoniCentIVtoX.pdf|2]], [[:File:LeoniFDCtopreComm.pdf|3]], [[:File:LeoniMiscToEnd.pdf|5]]). Where should I upload it? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:43, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
::: {{ping|TE(æ)A,ea.}} Impressive work! Several thoughts:
:::* Why not upload it to Commons? I've confirmed that its U.S. copyright was not renewed here: [https://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=Propheties&Search_Code=TALL&PID=zncdD-FwHu2awKzimNNMDw9kMY1-vDe&SEQ=20220916135917&CNT=25&HIST=1] On Commons, the template is {{tl|PD-US-no-renewal}}.
:::* I believe one of the several reasons DJVU files are preferable to PDF is that they are typically smaller. Also, unless I've missed something, DJVU is required for Match & Split. I'd be happy to convert these, and perhaps combine them into fewer files, if you'd like.
:::* Have you kept (or could you make) higher quality individual scans of the image plates, and upload them as PNG?
:::* Are you aware that it's possible to send a book to be scanned by the Internet Archive? I have a few I've been meaning to send, but I have not personally used this process. Could be worthwhile for future projects. See these links: [https://help.archive.org/hc/en-us/articles/360017876312-How-do-I-make-a-physical-donation-to-the-Internet-Archive- Overview]; [https://archive.org/details/physical-donations-webinar Webinar, discusses their process in depth];[https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfPYFFO_-85RZOsULfG2luvt5TetI66OtChJL0xOLqujBlJjg/viewform form to send them a book]
:::* Also, it is possible to upload files larger than 100MB, but not with the standard form. I believe I could help with this as well but I have to refamiliarize myself with the process. (One easy, but roundabout, way to do it is to upload first to IA, then use the IA Upload tool to transfer to Commons.)
:::* I owe you an email separate from all this, and it's on its way.
::: -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 18:09, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
:::*[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]]: 1. When I scan a book in multiple parts, I upload them without metadata here so they can be combined and reuploaded as one file with metadata at Commons. 2. Especially for books of length, that would take a great deal of time; this book, scanning with PDF as native, took me over six hours in two sittings. I usually make (and will make in this case) high-quality scan images of pages with images. Another problem is file size: I have to scan to a flash drive which only has about 6 GB of free space, so scanning high-quality images would require more sittings. (It’s a twenty or thirty minute walk to scan things, by the way.) 3. The book [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=File:LeoniToCentIII.pdf&page=2 is not mine], so I cannot send it in; like most of the books I scan in, they are borrowed from libraries of other universities. 4. Annoyingly, the fourth (of five parts) is ~107 MB, so I can’t upload it locally. To upload it there, even, I have to use the miserable Wizard. It also requires me to use Commons, which makes it worse. I do have an IA account, which I have been using to upload some microfilm scans; but I don’t know how to use IA Upload (and I don’t think that would be the best move in this case because it is a partial file). 5. Okay, I’ll be on the lookout. (Thanks for reminding me to check my email.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:56, 16 September 2022 (UTC)
::::# Thanks for explaining your process, that makes sense.
::::# Again, good to understand your process, I'm all the more impressed with this effort given what you're telling me.
::::# Yeah, I should have been more clear, I understood this one was from the library, but it seems like a good option to be aware of (because sometimes we have the books we want to get scanned.) Just wanted to offer the info, please disregard if irrelevant.
::::# I think I can help with that, but I'll have to think through how to best help. [https://ia-upload.wmcloud.org/ IA Upload] is a tremendously valuable tool! It can be a little fiddly but it usually works. If you can get it uploaded to IA, I can do the IA Upload transfer from IA to Commons...and I could walk you through the steps if you'd like.
::::# OK, check your inbox again -- sent now. -[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]] ([[User talk:Peteforsyth|talk]]) 01:00, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
:::: You can upload works of arbitrary size to the Internet Archive as [https://blog.archive.org/2012/05/24/uploading-images-for-text-items/ zips of images] and then copy them to Commons with [https://ia-upload.wmcloud.org/ IA upload] even if they are oversized.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 01:31, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
:::::@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] (CC @[[User:Peteforsyth|Peteforsyth]]): You can upload files of arbitrary size (up to either 2GB or 4GB, which is the hard limit) using [[c:User talk:Rillke/bigChunkedUpload.js]]. It's not particularly intuitive or user friendly, but if you're at all technically inclined you should be able to figure it out. That lets you upload single files of arbitrary size to either Commons or enWS (you need to install it both places).{{pbr}}The biggest limitation is that it only uploads single files (so it's for the end product). Batch upload of individual files can be done using one of the [[c:Commons:Upload_tools#Standalone_desktop_applications|Standalone desktop applications]] for Commons. I haven't tested any of these, but the most commonly mentioned is [[c:COM:PAT|Pattypan]].{{pbr}}Uploading images to IA is also a good option. One thing is the ia-upload tools and similar, but if you want me (or someone else at the [[WS:LAB|Scan Lab]]) to generate a DjVu for you (with or without modifications), IA is a convenient place to download the individual files from. But, of course, that presupposes the images are more or less completely processed (crop, levels, orientation, etc.) and are PD worldwide.{{pbr}}Regarding this specific scan, just use bigChunkedUpload.js to upload the last PDF along the other four and I'll extract pages and generate a DjVu. Unless you want to do the extra work of uploading the individual images to IA. Working from individual images rather than the PDFs will avoid some generational loss (multiple lossy re-compressions), but may not be worth the effort in practice (depends what tools and data you have convenient etc.). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:15, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
*[[User:Peteforsyth|Pete]], [[User:Xover|Xover]]: I was lazy, so [[:File:LeoniComm.pdf]] is on Commons. One unified file (DJVU preferably) from the combined five would be appreciated, and then the base files can be deleted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:23, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
*:@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]]: [[:File:Nostradamus (1961).djvu]] (finally; sorry about the delay) [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 21:16, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[An Introduction to Botany. Containing an Explanation of the Theory of That Science]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. Scan exists if someone has the patience, but the work is of very limited value. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:24, 14 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
While the work is in scope, it is not scan backed (though has ext link to scan) and has been long abandoned and is well incomplete. It serves no real purpose in its current form. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:45, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

:Nah, it's a stupid name but the chapters transcribed are actually transcribed. It just needs to be at a less stupid namespace. I'll do it. &nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User talk:LlywelynII|<span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Llywelyn<span style="color:Gold">II</span></span>]] 12:24, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
::{{ping|LlywelynII}} It is not the solely the name, as I took it away from "An introduction to ..." as it needed disambiguating, and knew at the time that I was nominating for deletion. The work needs to be fully backed by scans or deleted. We don't accept partial, abandoned works where they cannot be completed without their source to tie them to an edition. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:23, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
:::You're obviously around more, but of course it doesn't and that's a silly policy. Half-done work is better than nothing for expansive collaboration projects like this. There's literally nothing gained from removing it; the original text is perfectly available; and it provides greater access as is.

:::It's exactly the same situation as [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#Empty_year_categories|these silly ancient year categories]]. Sure it's currently useless. It's within scope and better to have it ready for the next guys with interest/helpful completionists.&nbsp;—&nbsp;[[User talk:LlywelynII|<span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">Llywelyn<span style="color:Gold">II</span></span>]] 13:46, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

::::{{ping|LlywelynII}} If it was transcribed to a scan, then it would be perfectly acceptable to be incomplete and available for further work. It is our clear experience that works in this form they do not progress, they just sit and rot. If someone wishes to upload the scan, and start the migration process, then it approaches something retainable and workable. Currently? Simply too hard for users to easily progress. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:44, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:48, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{comment}} This was tied to WD item Q19109835, which indicates a scan, and that scan exists on Commons. '''However''' this work is of little to no value, being a ''translation'' of a work by Linnaeus that focuses almost exclusively on listing and defining terms, then describing Linnaeus' high-level classification of plants, which was quickly discarded by taxonomists.  Wikipedia and Wiktionary together provide a much better source of information than this volume. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:24, 14 April 2023 (UTC)}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:24, 14 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Pilgrim&#39;s Progress (unsourced)]] ==
{{closed|Deleted.|text=
This is an unsourced edition added from an unknown edition. There are two scan-backed copies of this work on enWS. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:42, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}}. Could be even speedied per [[:Wikisource:Deletion policy#G4]]: ''An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version.''. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:27, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
::Is the unsourced edition identical to one of the sourced editions? If so, I'll speedy it myself. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:56, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}}, per nom and Jan. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 18:39, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} per nom [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:16, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:15, 19 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Mennonite Handbook of Information]] ==
{{closed|1=brought up to standard, scan backed — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 22:50, 13 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
This work was a copy and paste dump, and essentially unactioned/unimproved since. It is not a worthy representation of the work, nor particularly fit for presentation. The work is within scope, though, it is my understanding that it is a work that is in many editions as a regular update of information and republished, none of which is evident with our form.  So it seems that the page itself would be a {{tl|versions}} page, and with each edition otherwise suitably located and linked from that page. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 00:32, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
: It looks like most of the work is missing, but what is there is at least partially cleaned up. If an appropriate scan is found, I would be willing to bring what we already have up to WS standards, and leave it as a work in progress for anyone desiring to add the rest. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:55, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
::I couldn't resist .... [[Index:Mennonite Handbook of Information 1925.djvu]] —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 15:05, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:13, 19 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Manifesto of Prague]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted by [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]], unknown license. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:54, 16 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
While this open letter is of interest, I accept that the copyright status hasn't been established; as the only the significant contributor to the page, I propose deleting. My thanks to [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] for discussion elsewhere. [[User:Klbrain|Klbrain]] ([[User talk:Klbrain|talk]]) 19:36, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
:'''deleted''' Thanks for the self-nom. {{ping|Klbrain}} Do note that something like open letters on the web can be linked to from their author or portal page where we cannot host. We would still expect the portal or the author to have that "notability" component for the respective author or portal page to exist. It is out attempt to find balance. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 22:45, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE SURVEY 21 YUGOSLAVIA COUNTRY PROFILE CIA-RDP01-00707R000200100031-1.pdf (]] ==
{{closed|Speedied as author's request.|text=
[[Index:NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE SURVEY 21 YUGOSLAVIA COUNTRY PROFILE CIA-RDP01-00707R000200100031-1.pdf (]] typo in index name. sorry about that. [[User:Slowking4|Slowking4]] ‽ <span style="font-family:UnifrakturMaguntia">[[User_talk:Slowking4|''digitaleffie's ghost'']]</span> 10:51, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:00, 19 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:CFA exam story.djvu]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. Extract from a web-only source without suitable licensing. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:57, 26 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Is this in our scope? -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:48, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
:No.  I've asked the contributor:  It is an extract from a brochure posted on a webpage.  So it is an extract from an unpublished work without a PD license. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:41, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:57, 26 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Satyricon]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; recreated as redirect to scan-backed copy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:20, 28 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Unformatted copy-dump from 2007.  We have a proper scan-backed copy in progress. {{ssl|The Satyricon of Petronius Arbiter (1922), vol. 1.djvu}} --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:53, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
:Can be deleted, but it seems it will be replaced by the scan-backed version soon anyway. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:01, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
::The Index page for the scan uses a different page title.  This pagename may be needed for disambiguation.  Many English translations exist, as well as other works with this title. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:56, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
:Indeed. My plan initially was to just transclude over the existing page, but as you note there are multiple translations and other works. For now I'm going to delete [[Satyricon]] to break the Wikidata association and then recreate it as a redirect to [[The Satyricon of Petronius Arbiter]] until we get more versions.{{pbr}}PS. If any text on here needs trigger warnings it's this one (you name the trigger, this text has got it). Even the critical commentary is… very very sus. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:40, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:20, 28 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Plan of Discipline]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted, as extract. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Not a separate work, but just a short extract from the work ''Journals of Major Robert Rogers'', see [https://books.google.cz/books?id=KXqlHwLIaP8C&printsec=frontcover&hl=cs#v=onepage&q=%22All%20Rangers%20are%20to%20be%22&f=false here]. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:39, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} and archive.org doesn't have a scan. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 11:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:Cjhanleyjr/Department of the Army No Gun Ri Review Report]] ‎ ==
{{closed|1=blanked, at [[U.S. Department of the Army No Gun Ri Review Report]] — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Seemingly a duplicate or early draft transclusion of [[U.S. Department of the Army No Gun Ri Review Report]] and the user has not been active on Wikisource for over a Decade.  The flagged LintErrors are minor. 

Do we retain userspace drafts indefinitely on English Wikisource? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:36, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:TheSkullOfRFBurton/Journal of the Gypsy Lore Society/Volume I]] ==
{{closed|1=blanked page, though not deleted — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:21, 14 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
Seemingly abandoned Transcription, user was last active over a decade ago. If retained should be scan-backed somehow... [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

{{comment}} This is a work that we would prefer to have from scans, and as subpages. Showing in this form is problematic, so blanked. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:21, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:06, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:RJGray/On a Property of the Set of All Real Algebraic Numbers]] ==
{{closed|1=kept; no action — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:08, 14 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
Userspace draft, not substantially edited since 2016. If retained the subscript errors should be solved , and the work moved to the Translation namespace. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 15:19, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: While I personally think we should delete old userspace drafts and sandboxes that cause the slightest bit of problem (provided they appear long-abandoned, of course, and with a "speedy" undelete if the user returns and asks for it), I don't expect the community to support that absent significant problems caused by the individual userspace page. Especially since we have less intrusive options such as blanking the page without deleting it. I could be wrong but that has been the general tenor in previous instances.{{pbr}}But on the other hand we certainly shouldn't start moving stuff ''out'' of userspace that we don't know the provenance of since there's probably a reason why it is in userspace and not in a content namespace. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 15:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

: This one is however sourced, and I am thinking it's a user translation. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 16:03, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
::See Also: [[:User:RJGray/Sandbox]] [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:14, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

:{{comment}} This one can't be moved into the Translation: namespace, since it does not meet [[WS:T|our guidelines]] for an original translation: "A scan supported original language work must be present on the appropriate language wiki, where the original language version is complete at least as far as the English translation." --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:20, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:08, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:Blue-Haired Lawyer/sandbox]] ==
{{closed|1=kept, though blanked — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
Draft transcription (non scan backed) of a European Treaty, Not substantially edited in over a Decade. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 23:06, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:@[[User:Blue-Haired Lawyer|Blue-Haired Lawyer]]: Do you still need your (ca. 2010) user sandbox here? If you want to keep it, would you mind if we blanked the page so it doesn't show up in maintenance backlogs? Incidentally, if it's deleted now and you later want to get back to it, you should be able to just grab any admin and ask for undeletion with reference to this discussion (a permanent link to which should typically be provided in the deletion log for the page so you don't have to keep track of it). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:36, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:13, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:Sam joe quick/Speech at the Meeting Celebrating the Completion of the Building of the Anti-Japanese Military and Political University]] ==
{{closed|1=deleted — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:43, 14 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
userspace draft or transcription of an unsourced speech. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:44, 21 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
::{{re|PseudoSkull}} Note that this particular user has made all of four edits to any WMF project, each edit creating a page in mainspace that was subsequently moved to userspace due to lacking any kind of quality, source, license, etc.: [[Special:PrefixIndex/Sam joe quick/]].{{pbr}}There was no response to Billinghurst's message on their talk page at that time, so I hold it exceedingly unlikely that this user will ever return to the project. If they do they can easily request undeletion.{{pbr}}What I'm saying is that, yes, userspace drafts should get wide latitude for active or somewhat established users; drive-by copydumps temporarily moved to userspace to get them out of mainspace do not qualify. (this, btw, is why I do not think moving things to userspace is a good idea: it ends up as a dumping ground for all the junk, essentially kicking the can down the road for someone else to deal with). --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:11, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
: Appears to be the same as [https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_26.htm], by Mao Tse-tung. Ping [[User:Sam joe quick]] for info. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 15:37, 31 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{vd}} These are unsourced and unformatted drive-by copydumps by a user that has made no other edits and never will. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:11, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:15, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Pt. Ram Prasad 'Bismil'-A warrior of Pen & Pistol]] ==
{{closed|1=deleted per consensus — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
The work, whose addition to Wikisource bears many signs of selfpromotion, cannot be found anywhere, and so it most probably is not within our scope. Its author tried to promote his work in English Wikipedia too, but it finished with an indefblock for gross incompetence, which (among others) included [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Krantmlverma#Fake_references adding fake references]. The self-promotion attempts continued [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rajendra_Singh_%28RSS%29&diff=559257799&oldid=558874550 from IP addresses] or [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Rajendra_Singh_%28RSS%29&diff=626196492&oldid=617408238 from sock-puppet accounts] after the block too. As a result I do not trust his contributions here very much either. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:11, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
: Unless someone can follow up with a good paper source for this text (something we could at least buy, or better yet read directly online as a scan), then I would say {{vd}}. If it was really from 1985, some kind of non-online source should be provideable. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 21:57, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
:: I had forgotten about this self-publishing author. I had several discussions with him back in 2011 to 2013. He was supposed to do OTRS releases for anything he wanted to put on here (see the December 2012 archives of the copyright violations page). If such can't be found, then I'm more than happy for this to be consigned to the wastebin. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 02:16, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
:::If you do really want to buy it.... https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=30873290980 [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:34, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
::::Given the contributor's history, I would prefer some accessible source to be checked. Even if the paper were really published in the linked publication, we cannot be sure that text presented here is exactly the same as the one there (the false references mentioned above are a clear warning). --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 02:51, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
:::::Oh sure, and if we wanted translations of Ram Prasad Bismil's poetry, whether someone wants to do a clean translation into Translation: rather than deal with the copyright mess of the conference proceedings. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:27, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
::After some search I [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manmath_Nath_Gupta found] the following information: '''''Manmath Nath Gupta''' was also present as an Indian delegate in the International Symposium on India and World Literature (IWL) at Vigyan Bhavan, New Delhi on 27 February 1985 (...) He was much pleased when a paper on his leader titled as Pt. Ram Prasad 'Bismil': A Warrior of Pen & Pistol was placed before the delegates.'' That sounds like some paper with the same title as our text was really published at the conference, but its author was somebody else. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 03:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
:::Except that that text was added to the WP article by the author of this paper. Gupta was just present at the conference and Verma was the author and presenter of the paper. The conference proceedings are still in copyright—thus my request to him to provide OTRS releases. I neglected to follow that up as it was happening during the time I was have major health issues in RL. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 06:17, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' absent some evidence ''against'' its being legitimate (other than aspersions directed against the author). The poorly-worded Wikipedia article appears to be merely a glancing reference to the paper; I do not believe that it is meant that Mr. Gupta wrote it. In any case, I am looking into ''India and World Literature'' at the moment, so I request that the file not be deleted for the time being. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 03:20, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
{{comment}} no further progress made to work, so there is no clear reason for retention per above conversation. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Expedition of Humphry Clinker]] ==
{{closed|1=kept; work now transcluded from scans, so fully within scope|text=
abandoned work, not scan-backed, only 2 chapters of plenty.  Work itself, is not out of scope. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:10, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
* <s>{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:24, 15 January 2023 (UTC)</s>
*:{{keep}} since Chrisguise has started work on it. {{ping|Billinghurst|MarkLSteadman}} Is that sufficient for you too? --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:32, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
*::Yes, that is sufficient for me. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:07, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} per nom. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:09, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
::Note that the two chapters themselves are now scan backed as they were just proofread, I think we should hold on deleting to see if further chapters are done. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:02, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
:::I'm happy to hold off if someone is working on it. {{ping|Chrisguise}} Are you planning to work on this? Would you prefer we keep this or delete it to make way for your new transcription? [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 16:04, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
::::I am intending to progress this work (in my usual haphazard and erratic fashion). I worked with the existing structure and have already overwritten the 'unsourced' text, so there's no need to delete anything. Regards, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 08:27, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

* {{comment}} This is linked to by '''many''' other pages.  If someone could set up and begin a transcription, it would avoid having to de-link dozens of pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:02, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
*:No requirement to unlink, red links are acceptable in our namespaces. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:40, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
*:: I mean that the deletion would ''de facto'' de-link from all those pages.  The fact that this work is so heavily referenced means it is of value to have it here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:48, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:26, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:PD-India-CWMG]] ==
{{closed|1=deleted; uses have been converted to standard template — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
From IP address [[Special:Contribs/184.21.204.5|184.21.204.5]], on [[Template talk:PD-India-CWMG]]: "Why is there a special template for Gandhi's works? / Is there a special copyright exemption for works of Gandhi? If not, why is this template not more general?" [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 02:42, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

:FTR there is no special copyright exemption for Gandhi's works. Anything tagged with {{tlx|PD-India-CWMG}} could just as well be tagged {{tlx|PD-US|1948}} (although ''not'' {{tlx|PD-India}}, which only applies to works which were PD in India in 1996). —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 04:55, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
::Gandhi's works became PD in India on January 1st, 2009. [[User:Yann|Yann]] ([[User talk:Yann|talk]]) 16:13, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} we should have legislative templates, not author specific. Convert uses. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:39, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
*:{{vd}} Agreed. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 01:29, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' I removed all uses of this template. [[User:Yann|Yann]] ([[User talk:Yann|talk]]) 12:58, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{comment}} If this template is deleted, [[Module:PD-India-CWMG]] should be deleted as well. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 19:35, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
::clean up was complete and checked (as usual by me for my deletions) in this space — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Masks or Faces?]] ==
{{closed|deleted|text=
Work in itself is not out of scope; however, it has just 2 of 15 subpages, and was started in 2011, so should be considered abandoned. Not scan backed. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 12:27, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} delete as abandoned. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:03, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:02, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:34, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Two on a Tower]] ==
{{closed|deleted|text=
While the work is in scope, we only have one chapter prior to the work being abandoned. Not supported by a scan.  There will be scans available, though even with a scan uploaded, this version is not worth trying to rescue. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 11:28, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:42, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
::{{vd}} per nom. Easier to start from scratch. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:05, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:36, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Anarchy (Malatesta)]] ==
{{closed|1=converted to redirect to its root page; updated wikidata — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:46, 15 May 2023 (UTC)|text=
This is an unsourced partial duplicate from a different edition of the work that is now scan backed here: [[Anarchy and Is It All a Dream?/Anarchy]] [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 13:00, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:41, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. Might be also changed into redirect or soft redirect, given the long time we have had it here. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:57, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:37, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:Free media]] ==
{{closed|1=deleted as unused and not required — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:08, 15 May 2023 (UTC)|text=
10+ year old cut&paste import by a now-globally locked account, untouched since, entirely without documentation, and currently unused (I very much doubt it's ever been used). All it does is add a single global category that we could equally well add either manually (to the file's description page) or through our proper licensing templates. It is also nonsensical: it purports to tag "all free media", but ''all'' media on enWS is free ''by definiton''. It probably makes sense on enWP (from where it was copied) because they have a concept of ''non''-free media (they permit some copyrighted content to be used under ''fair use'' exemptions). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 22:53, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} I agree with the rationale. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:55, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} When I saw it appearing earlier I was considering speedy, but needed to think through it a bit more. I really don't see the point of its existence here. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 23:17, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
* '''Delete.''' I don’t think the identity of the creator is relevant, and I don’t think that a speedy deletion would have been appropriate given the age of the template and its recent use. These objections aside, I agree that the template has use, and should be deleted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:29, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
*:The identity of the uploader is relevant insofar as it takes quite a lot of rather unsavoury behaviour to be globally banned by the WMF (we're talking off-wiki harassment and similar, in addition to on-wiki shenanigans), which means we can no longer assume good faith in their actions. So in cases like these where we have incomplete information (i.e. why the template was created, what it was to be used for, etc.) it affects the assessment for those aspects. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:03, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} the [[:Category:All free media]] was created in conjunction with the Template, and has no content.  Should it also be deleted? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:47, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
*:Indeed, I'd meant to list that too explicitly. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:58, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:37, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== PD-art ==
{{closed|1=deleted per consensus — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:40, 14 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
[[Template:PD-art]], and the attendant [[:Category:PD-art]], are nonsense as framed. It appears to have been created / used when ''[[w:Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.|Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp.]]'' was novel / controversial, but the text it uses doesn't really address the core issue there. The template is now unused (I removed the last three uses) and is in all cases redundant to our actual license templates (it is never sufficient to use {{tl|PD-art}} alone). If we feel the need for some way to indicate that application of ''Bridgeman v. Corel'' the right way would be to create an equivalent to Commons' [[c:Template:PD-scan]] (which is designed to wrap the actual license template and merely explain how it applies given ''Bridgeman''). I propose we get rid of it and if a need pops up for something in this vein we create something fit for purpose (which may be a parameter to our existing licensing module instead of a new template). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:26, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} unclear why we would be hosting such reproductions instead of commons anyways. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:40, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Agreed. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 19:09, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} unused and unlikely to be used,  we can dispense with it. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:05, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:40, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:Home Life in Tokyo 1910 by Jukichi Inouye.pdf]]==
{{closed|1='''speedy deleted''' as duplicate, after ensuring subpages are present in alternate work — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:00, 15 May 2023 (UTC)|text=
This is a duplicate of [[Index:Home Life in Tokyo (homelifeintokyo00inouuoft).djvu]]. The latter is newer, but has more completed work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 21:49, 14 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Isagoge (Owen)]] ==

This is a secondhand transcription, which does not meet [[WS:WWI]]. This work can be salvaged if an Index page it set up from a scan of the original publication. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:15, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} unless scanbacked. The volume which this text has been extracted from is available at https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b286823 (or both volumes of the work at https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001227555 ). --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:45, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:01, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
:This is part of [[Index:O. F. Owen's Organon of Aristotle Vol. 2 (1853).djvu]]. I will proofread the 25 pages which shouldn't take too long. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:04, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
:I have now transcluded it from the 1853 Bohn edition with an initial pass. @[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]], @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] @[[User:Xover|Xover]] is that sufficient to address your concerns?  [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 10:02, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

{{comment}} {{ping|MarkLSteadman}} please convert it to a redirect and mark this as {{tl|section resolved}} when done. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:36, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: Converted into a redirect to the scan-backed transcription from the original larger work. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:53, 16 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[1904 List of Qualified Jurors, Singapore]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; published list, with identified source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
The page is a list of qualified jurors in Singapore for the year of 1904. As per what [[WS:SCOPE#Reference material]] mentioned, pure lists are out of Wikisource's scope unless it forms part of another source text. The page should therefore be deleted for '''out of scope''' with reference to [[WS:CSD#G5]].[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 08:39, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' This work was, apparently, published in the ''Government Gazette'' for October 21, 1904, which is clearly another source text. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:28, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
**'''Question''' WS:SCOPE states that {{tqi|Wikisource does not collect reference material unless it is '''published as part of a complete source text'''.}} But as we don't have corresponding transcribed text for that issue of government gazette, isn't that it is not published as part of a complete source text?[[User:廣九直通車|廣九直通車]] ([[User talk:廣九直通車|talk]]) 12:48, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
**:You're right. It's just that those who do not wish to delete anything, ever, for any reason (I'm exaggerating for effect, but you get my drift...) tend to wikilawyer that part of the policy. Combined with the general reluctance of the community to delete things for being incomplete (no matter how incomplete and poor quality), we tend to end up keeping even stuff like this (loose, cut&pasted, lists of names, other random accumulations of data). I'm all for raising our standards a bit and deleting any such cruft that nobody is actually working on, but we'll see where we stand when it comes time to close this discussion. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 18:38, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
**:*[[User:Xover|Xover]]: The ''Gazette'' can be seen [https://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/printheritage/detail/90533f1a-e5d3-4b5b-aea8-b91aa657f348.aspx here], and the list is at 317–347. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:22, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
* {{vk}} Published work which is a list, so more than a reference. Complete and useful to someone. Ideally it would be resituated as a subpage to its published work. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 22:54, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
*{{vd}} Isolated lists are out of scope per [[WS:SCOPE#Reference material]]. If we wanted, we could flood Wikisource with copying similar lists from various sources here (even bots could be employed for such work), but do we really want to? --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:21, 30 April 2023 (UTC)
*:{{vk}} per @[[User:Billinghurst|Billinghurst]] and @[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]]. This is "more than a reference." It has value more than is currently recognized. It is also a rare and historically interesting document from a geographic area that lacks the depth of coverage that are available from other countries/ areas. -- [[User:Ooligan|Ooligan]] ([[User talk:Ooligan|talk]]) 16:36, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:53, 27 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[How the Other Half Lives]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; scan-backed copy is in progress. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
Unsourced text claiming to be the original 1890 version, which significantly differs from the original publication by:
* illustrations used, compare e.g. illustrations in our [[How the Other Half Lives/Chapter VI]] with the [https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000047324398&view=1up&seq=79 original] (I suspect that the contributor instead scanning the original simply used some other partly similar available photos of the same places)
* omitted illustrations used in the original, like [https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000047324398&view=1up&seq=74 this one]
* added notes, which are not present in the original (and without the source we may also suspect they are copyrighted)
-- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 12:16, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

:Note that we ran it in the Monthly Challenge last year so initial work towards a proofread copy was done [[Index:How the other half lives.djvu|here]], which has most of the correct illustrations but needs the text proofread. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:00, 29 April 2023 (UTC)

* {{vk}} as long as we are migrating to the proofread version. Should be labelled accordingly. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:11, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:45, 27 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Page:"Another enemy to conquer forest fires, nine out of ten can be prevented" - NARA - 513860.tif]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; Beyond scope. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:41, 27 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
Has not been transcribed and the image resolution isn't good enough to make the text legible. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 04:50, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}}. I'd say this—a sheet of stamps—is a bit outside what Wikisource is suited for. Had it been a single stamp it'd be more borderline, but there is no sane way we can reproduce this in a way that adds value to our readers. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:29, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} and I reckon that we can speedy it as out of scope.  There were a number of pages that should never have been transcribed. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 00:35, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:41, 27 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[The Wreck of the Steamer "Stella"]]==
{{closed|1=Kept; complicated issue, but print copy found to serve as source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:31, 30 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
Speedy deletion contested: original by [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]], with claim “out of scope - secondary transcription.” However, there is no evidence that this is a secondary transcription. A secondary transcription is a transcription made at another site and then imported here, from my understanding of the closed proposal. This work is marked as “no source”; thus, it is not evident that it originated from an illegal source. For the record, I '''oppose''' the deletion. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:58, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
:I'm interpreting the policy as including "no source" as being "secondary transcriptions" by default. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:15, 16 February 2022 (UTC)
:: There is no evidence that this is a secondary transcription.  If there is no source, then it cannot be a secondary transcription, and if it is a secondary transcription, then it has a source.  The two cases are inherently mutually exclusive. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:42, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] What is to stop users from source washing by simply omitting the secondary source? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 05:21, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
::I think it would be good to communicate to contributors clearly what we expect them to do, if what we want them to do is to provide a source we should explicitly communicate that to them. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:07, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
:::I did reach out to the user and offer to find them a scan. Part of the rationale for this policy is to stop further unsourced/secondary transcriptions. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:35, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
::::You mean: how can you police the honesty of contributors?  That's an entirely separate issue, and not relevant for this deletion discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]])
:::::It’s about making a presumption that no source = secondary transcription as the most likely scenario. The other works that the user posted are from a secondary source. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 20:35, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
: This almost certainly was copied from one of the many secondary transcriptions online, which are probably copying each other and I hazard likely eventually back to [https://archive.org/details/yetmorepoeticgem0000mcgo/page/30/mode/2up Yet More Poetic Gems], which is a British 1980 compilation and therefore copyrighted (the compilation, probably not the poem). It would be a lot better if the original source could be found, probably in some periodical, but if it can't be, a "naked" text is the best we can have, though there would always be an open question over whether it was modified in the 1980 edition (with a small but non-zero risk of creative input: cf. [https://mjpbooks.com/blog/the-senseless-tragic-rape-of-charles-bukowskis-ghost-by-john-martins-black-sparrow-press/ the posthumous "improvement" of Charles Bukowski's work]). So it could be an exception to the second hand text thing based on lack of public domain source. Any ideas where the original was published, anyone? [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—<span style="font-size:smaller">[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]</span> 21:41, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
:: According to [[w:List of William McGonagall poems|Wikipedia]], the poem was first published in 1962 in More Poetic Gems. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:54, 17 February 2022 (UTC)–
::: That can't be right, it sounds like it was likely first published in some local Dundee paper around the time of the event. That Wikipedia list looks like someone has just transcribed the TOCs of the collections at the IA. For example, [https://www.laphamsquarterly.org/roundtable/disaster-poet apparently] the one about Gilfillan was published in the ''Dundee Weekly News'', not in a 1962 collection, 60 years after McGonagall's death. [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—<span style="font-size:smaller">[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]</span> 22:14, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
:::: This begets the question of how much work do we need to do to hunt down the original publication. If the uploader transcribed the poem from an original publication, they should be able to easily list it. Otherwise, I'm inclined to presume that they simply copied it from an online source. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:28, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
:::: @[[User:Shāntián Tàiláng]] Can you solve the mystery and tell us the source of this poem? [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 22:31, 17 February 2022 (UTC)
::::[https://www.worldcat.org/title/wreck-of-the-steamer-stella-a-new-poem/oclc/224197762 Worldcat] says that the poem was originally published in 1899. But I haven't been able to find an instance of the original publication. [[User:DoublePendulumAttractor|DoublePendulumAttractor]] ([[User talk:DoublePendulumAttractor|talk]]) 03:05, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Languageseeker|DoublePendulumAttractor}} You might want to note that "[[Lines in Praise of Tommy Atkins]]" was also published in [https://web.archive.org/web/20171210022327/http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/publications/more-poetic-gems ''More Poetic Gems''] (1962).<br>I really don't have any access to print media (although I surely wish I did), and searching Google Books doesn't yield anything with "Preview available", but I ''do'' know that [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Poems_published_posthumously several other poems] have been published posthumously; that <u>'''''might'''''</u> have been the case with these two poems. Just giving you some advice. [[User:Shāntián Tàiláng|Shāntián Tàiláng]] ([[User talk:Shāntián Tàiláng|talk]]) 16:28, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
:::::: @[[User:Shāntián Tàiláng]] Thank you. This source would make it a secondary transcription and out-of-scope. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 02:51, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

: {{keep}} It rather seems to me that this poem will not be easy to scan-back due to lack of unambiguously copyright-free physical copies. While any one poem is clearly in the PD, the actual book ''Yet More Poetic Gems'' is not because copyright subsists in the collection itself, so we can't host a scan of that book.
: Thus, I suggest that this poem should be permitted, since it's unreasonable to expect someone to use a scan if ''no-one'' can find a scan. If a scan comes along in future, probably due to digitisation of some local Dundee broadsheet, this "unsourced edition" (in that it's not clearly tied to a physical edition, though it likely is ''YMPGs'') can be replaced with a suitably backed copy. In the mean time, we have {{tl|unsourced}} and {{tl|second-hand}} to make it's provenance, or lack thereof, clear.
: This is, IMO, an appropriate time to invoke a [[WS:WWI#Consensus]] exception due to the unusual lack of ''any'' hostable scan for the work.
: If scans ''were'' available, I would expect those to be used instead for all the usual reasons. [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—<span style="font-size:smaller">[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]</span> 19:25, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
::apparantly there is a broadsheet floating out there [https://books.google.com/books?id=IdWlNwAACAAJ&dq=The+Wreck+of+the+Steamer+%22Stella%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwipwN-B96f2AhUqg3IEHdR1CXgQ6AF6BAgLEAE]; [https://www.worldcat.org/title/wreck-of-the-steamer-stella-a-new-poem/oclc/224197762&referer=brief_results] - but it might be hard to find to scan. when you delete it you make it harder to find. (maybe you should contact the Univ Edin. group at WMUK --<span style="font-family:Papyrus;">[[User:Slowking4|Slowking4]]</span> 亞 <span style="font-family:UnifrakturMaguntia">[[User_talk:Slowking4|Farmbrough's revenge]]</span> 17:19, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
::: National Library of Scotland has a print copy dated 1899 [https://search.nls.uk/primo-explore/fulldisplay?docid=44NLS_ALMA21525181290004341&context=L&vid=44NLS_VU1&lang=en_US&search_scope=SCOPE1&adaptor=Local%20Search%20Engine&query=any,contains,William%20McGonagall&facet=topic,include,Shipwrecks&mode=basic&offset=0]. Therefore in scope (as are any other of McGonagall's poems being nominated). As we have NLS people involved here talk to their liaison contact {{ping|LilacRoses}} and see if they can help. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 06:55, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:31, 30 June 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Act No. 3815]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted, as this has sat unrepaired for years now. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Copydump, what formatting there is uses raw HTML, with no source and no license. A superficial look also suggests this is a modern translation (the specified translator shows up in Google as a paralegal) so it may also be a copyvio, but I'm too lazy to do the research on that just now. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:32, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
: Weirdly it looks to have been originally published in English so I am not sure what that translation is about, see e.g. here https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/1930/12/08/act-no-3815-s-1930/ (which says public domain). The source is almost certainly from the copyrighted source here: https://www.chanrobles.com/revisedpenalcodeofthephilippines.htm#.YLgkKXVKiV4 since it has the chan robles header. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:38, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
:: Please look at Republic Act No. 8293 Section 176 (which is also here in Wikisource at [[RA 8293#Sec. 176]]), the Philippine law stating all Philippine government works (including your proposed '''Act No. 3815''') are and must be not copyrighted and are in the public domain. <br>Also, all Philippine laws are written in English and not a translation of any kind.— <span style="font-size:25px">🍕</span> <span style="font-family:'Comic Sans MS';"><span style="color:#FFC83D">Yivan</span><span style="color:#F7894A">000</span> <small><sup>[[User:Yivan000|view]]</sup><sub>[[User_talk:Yivan000|talk]]</sub></small></span> 14:38, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Yivan000|Yivan000]]: Thank you for working to improve this text; however, please familiarise yourself with our style guide. enWS does not use the automatically generated table of content that MediaWiki provides, does not use the heading syntax of MW wikimarkup (we use direct visual formatting instead), and we use formatting templates rather than raw HTML. Paragraph breaks should be done by simply inserting two newlines, and italics should be done with wikimarkup, not HTML. In short, while massively improved from the cut&pasted text that was there before, this is still a mess. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:12, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:44, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== The complete works of Count Tolstoy ==
{{closed|1=All PDFs Deleted; some salted to prevent recreation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Some page scans of (mostly) Wiener's "The complete works of Count Tolstoy"
exist as 2 versions:

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_01.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc01tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_03.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc03tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_04.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc04tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_12.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc12tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_13.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc13tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_17.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc17tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_21.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc21tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_22.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc22tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_24.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc24tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_26.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc26tols).pdf]]

[[Index:Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_28.djvu]]
[[Index:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksofc28tols).pdf]]


To avoid that people start editing them twice, one of these
sets should be deleted. Because the indices with the *.djvu
seem to have been used already in the  
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy ,
the preferential deletion should target the PDF versions, not the DJVU. [On the other hand, the PDF volumes seem to be complete but some DJVU volumes missing, so a homogeneous name space would rather keep the PDF...]
[[User:R. J. Mathar|R. J. Mathar]] ([[User talk:R. J. Mathar|talk]]) 10:04, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

:Well, that's frustrating, given that I speedy deleted several of the pdfs as duplicates back a few months and someone has blithely recreated them. Yes, once any proofread pages have been appropriately dealt with, '''delete''' all the pdf versions and also delete the template that lists the volumes. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 21:58, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

:There is a message of some "InductiveBot" of 2021-05-17 in [[Page:The_complete_works_of_Count_Tolstoy_(IA_completeworksof02tols).pdf/107]] which says that some DJVU pages have been moved to the PDF pages. Will something like this happen again, if the PDF scans are deleted? (I'll start to copy all contents of the PDF pages to the DJVU...). - [[User:R. J. Mathar|R. J. Mathar]] ([[User talk:R. J. Mathar|talk]]) 12:24, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::@[[User:R. J. Mathar|R. J. Mathar]]: {{ul2|InductiveBot}} is a bot operated by {{ul2|Inductiveload}} If it moved these pages it was probably in response to a request someone made. I would suggest you hold off moving any pages until we figure out the background and decide definitively what indexes we are going to use. It is also probably best to let an admin do it to avoid a lot of cleanup afterwards. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:33, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

:: (E/C) This was talked about before, but no much seems to have happened: [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2021-05#Tolstoy_(Wiener)...]].
:: {{Re|R. J. Mathar}} please do not copy the content, that's a complete waste of everyone's time and removes history. I'll move any pages if needed. Manually moving pages between indexes is rarely the right thing to do, because if you do that, whoever does the move properly will need to delete the copied pages first.
:: Volume 2 was missing pages in the DJVU, so it was migrated to the PDF (see the deletion log at [[Index:Complete Works of Count Tolstoy - 02.djvu]]). If we want to go for a full set of DJVUs, that needs fixing. Or do we want a mixed set? 
:: If a batch upload of the missing DJVU volumes is desired, I can do that if provided with a spreadsheet of metadata as explained here [[User:Inductiveload/Requests/Batch uploads]]. [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—<span style="font-size:smaller">[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]</span> 12:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:I had in mind to do some Tolstoy a while back and found this mire, when I noticed an admin assisting the disruption I stopped trying to sort it out.  It is very easy to waste a lot of thoughtful contributors time with a few clicks. Can someone please ping the relevant accounts? <span style="font-size:smaller;">[[User talk:Cygnis insignis|CYGNIS INSIGNIS]]</span > 12:57, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:This is one of the templates, [[Template:The complete works of Count Tolstoy volumes]], and the history of the [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Works_of_Tolstoy_(Wiener)&action=history other]. <span style="font-size:smaller;">[[User talk:Cygnis insignis|CYGNIS INSIGNIS]]</span > 13:22, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:{{re|Languageseeker}} do you have any comment on what you were attempting to achieve? [[User:Cygnis insignis|Cygnis insignis]] ([[User talk:Cygnis insignis|talk]]) 23:06, 10 October 2021 (UTC)
:: As I recall, I started importing this set for the inaugural MC because someone recommended Anna Karenina. I didn’t realize that someone had already started this one as a DJVU set because it wasn’t listed on the Tolstoy page. Then, while looking through some of the Tolstoy works, I stumbled across the partial set of DJVUs. So, I requested that the text be merged over to the PDF because some of the DJVUs had missing pages or were worser quality. Beeswaxcandle then deleted the PDFs leaving to partial sets. Soon afterwards, I had to take a wiki break. It seems that in the meantime, someone began improving the DJVU set and restored the PDFs. Now, it seems like we have three choices. First, move the pages over from the DJVu to the PDF and delete the DJVU set. Two, import all the PDFs, move the page list over, merge the PDF pages to the DJVu, delete all the PDFs. Three, create a mixed set of PDFs and DJVUs by moving the pages over from the PDFs to the DJVUs and then deleting the PDFs. Two seems like the most work, three will produce a more confusing template, and one will require a bot to move stuff. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:33, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

I added the missing pages 311 and 312 (that is 337 and 338 if counted from 1) to the Complete_Works_of_Count_Tolstoy_-_02.djvu version on the wikimedia commons, copying the pages from the PDF scans. So at least that djvu-volume does no longer have missing pages. It would be useful to know exactly which other dvju volumes miss which pages. - [[User:R. J. Mathar|R. J. Mathar]] ([[User talk:R. J. Mathar|talk]]) 13:23, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
:{{re|R. J. Mathar}} It should be noted that [[:File:The complete works of Count Tolstoy (IA completeworksof02tols).pdf]] is based on {{IA|completeworksof02tols}} however [[:File:Complete Works of Count Tolstoy - 02.djvu]] was based on {{IA|completeworksofc03tols}}. The First is a Univ. of Florida scan of one of their prints while the latter is an MSN scan of a CDL print. It appears you created some strange Frankenstein of the two of them. I just upload [https://archive.org/download/completeworksof02tols/completeworksof02tols.djvu completeworksof02tols.djvu] over it and change the documented source (which was originally only documented as  "Internet Archive"). —[[User:Uzume|Uzume]] ([[User talk:Uzume|talk]]) 18:24, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
The difference between these two can be easily viewed by comparing:
<!-- commenting this table out because it's interfering with the "closed" template. {|
|DJVU ||{{Works of Tolstoy (Wiener)}}
|-
|PDF ||style="font-size:0.9em"|{{The complete works of Count Tolstoy volumes}}
|} -->
I filled in the missing DJVU Index pages (and media on Commons) since only [[The Complete Works of Count Tolstoy/Volume 2|Volume 2]] and [[The Complete Works of Count Tolstoy/Volume 20|Volume 20]] are currently transcluding from the PDFs (where as [[The Complete Works of Count Tolstoy/Volume 12|Volume 12]], [[The Complete Works of Count Tolstoy/Volume 23|Volume 23]] and [[The Complete Works of Count Tolstoy/Volume 24|Volume 24]] are from the DJVUs). They aren't particularly pretty but they are now there (the PDFs seem only slightly better as some of the DJVUs seem to have extraneous pages and the OCR is misaligned between pages). —[[User:Uzume|Uzume]] ([[User talk:Uzume|talk]]) 19:20, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

:@[[User:Uzume|Uzume]]: You appear to have some level of grasp of the various and sundry issues here?{{pbr}}From the above discussion it seems like the most desired outcome here is ending up with just the DjVu-based indexes, with whatever proofread pages currently associated with the PDFs moved over. In addition I think I hear that there may be some technical issues with some of the DjVu files. Is that roughly correct?{{pbr}}If someone can spoonfeed me the things that needs doing here I can help out with bot-moves, deletions, and (probably) DjVu fixing (misaligned OCR is usually fixable, and extraneous pages can be deleted if worth the effort). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 14:07, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
::{{re|Xover}} Well, I believe I did when I wrote that four months ago (did you wait to respond until the exact same day four months later?). I really am not sure whether the PDF files or the DjVu files "should" be used, however, I did go ahead and fill in and fix many of the DjVu file issues at Commons as well as stub out the Index pages here. In doing so, I ran in to issues with IAUpload for three cases where IA had no existing DjVu files (it was creating extraneous pages not in IA PDF files causing misaligned OCR). As memory serves (I would have to spend time to look it up again), I backed off and had used PDF to DjVu conversion as a work around (which fixed the content but also causes the quality to drop). I am pretty sure I gave some feedback about this on tickets in Phabricator (along with other issues I found in the tool). I shall try spin back up on this (it might take me a few days to find the time) and then "spoonfeed" you a few things to help get this cleaned up, however I shall likely move such discussion to your talk page then and leave this discussion as more a status update (assuming few people here really want to hear about the detailed technical minutiae). —[[User:Uzume|Uzume]] ([[User talk:Uzume|talk]]) 15:13, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Uzume|Uzume]]: Ping? [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:18, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
::::{{re|Xover}}: Pong? —[[User:Uzume|Uzume]] ([[User talk:Uzume|talk]]) 12:59, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
:::::I was promised a spoon-feeding. :) [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 17:06, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

:What's the status of these? I'd like to do some of Tolstoy's works. [[User:Yann|Yann]] ([[User talk:Yann|talk]]) 19:17, 22 February 2023 (UTC)
::@[[User:Yann|Yann]]: From a source perspective, both seem to be complete though a few (perhaps three) might have slightly better quality on the PDF side of things but that could be remedied by going back to the page scans and rebuilding the DjVu; last I checked IA-Upload has some issues in this department). Otherwise, feel free to work on whatever you want. My understanding is that the DjVu series is currently more complete than the PDF one (in terms of pages transcribed) so I would work there and recommend having the PDF side of things being deleted (some may ague the other way however). —[[User:Uzume|Uzume]] ([[User talk:Uzume|talk]]) 18:24, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

I am willing to go through deleting the PDFs and their pages, but someone should first edit [[Author:Lev Nikolayevich Tolstoy]] to switch all PDF scan links on that Author page to their DjVu equivalents. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:40, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Book of the Thousand Nights and a Night]] ==
{{closed|1=Cleaned out; Vols. 1 & 3 have transcription started. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:04, 2 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
A nearly fifteen year old mess of a copydump. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 21:52, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
:{{comment}} a horrid mess, and I approve its judicious clean out with a clear mind that there is probably some things there that can be saved, but much rampant copy and paste should just be culled. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:04, 2 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Mikado]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted, but Scan transcription and transclusion started. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:50, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Non-scanbacked, the given source is http://www.archive.org/details/mikadoorthetowno002227mbp , but the text in this source differs significantly in some scenes from the text we have here, compare e.g. [[The Mikado/For he's gone and married Yum-Yum]] with https://archive.org/details/mikadoorthetowno002227mbp/page/n31/mode/2up . -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:11, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' absent a scan-backed alternative. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:17, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
*{{vd}} I'd rather start fresh than have this text that differs from the published version. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 23:44, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
*{{vk}} and scan back with [[Index:The Mikado or the town of titipu.djvu]]. The text originally uploaded in 2006 appears to be based on the Chappell & Co. Vocal Score. At some point JVB found the Schirmer edition and put that link on the Talk page. If I recall my G&S history correctly, the Schirmer editions were based on pirated scores from the American touring productions. The Index: that Clockery uploaded in 2013 is the official publication of the libretto by Chappell & Co. and is the one we should be using as the primary edition. The Schirmer can be an historical oddity for interest. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 04:43, 25 October 2022 (UTC)
*:{{Re|Beeswaxcandle}} Are you voting to keep the work if scanbacked or even if not scanbacked? It does not seem anybody is going to proofread the index anytime soon, so I suggest deleting the confused version we have, and after the index is proofread, it can be founded again. IMO indexes of works not present in Wikisource have higher probability of being proofread than indexes of works whose poor versions already exist here. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:12, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
::I'll work on getting it scan-backed gradually amongst other tasks. The final presentation will be different, but might as well leave it there for the time-being. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 21:26, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
::: I also have an interest in improving our coverage of Gilbert's works, and have it on my to-do-eventually list :) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 23:01, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:50, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:User:VanishedUser sdu9aya9fasdsopa/CIA Inspector General Special Review: Counterterrorism Detention and Interrogation Activities (September 2001-October 2003) ]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept, but blanked. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:40, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
User space transcription, sourced, but seemingly un-edited in over a decade.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 12:22, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
: {{vk}} A userspace draft should be kept unless the user wants it deleted. We don't know what their use case for it might still be (if they were to come back). Not that I think this particular draft is likely to be of any use to them, but I think it's a little rude anyway to go in and delete it without their permission. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:00, 29 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{vd}} Contains very little actual transcribed content (mostly just a whole lot of copy/pasted "censored" boxes) out of a very girthy report. The user has exercised their right to vanish, meaning they are both exceedingly unlikely to return on their own and would in any case be prevented from continuing work on a draft in their vanished account userspace. The old draft is triggering lint errors and maintenance backlogs, and contains a link to a domain-squatter (well, the ACLU is redirecting to it, but we're linking to aclu.org; *sigh*).{{pbr}}For any active or established but currently inactive user we should leave a lot of leeway for userspace drafts. But for a vanished user, any draft that comes up here is most likely a good delete candidate (unless someone wants to grab whatever it is to work on immediately). --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:31, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
**[[User:Xover|Xover]]: This transcription appears to be (almost?) entirely complete. The file is available [http://web.archive.org/web/20091024010038/http://luxmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o10/clients/aclu/IG_Report.pdf here]; could you make an index of it? I’m happy to proofread the rest. Then it can be formally transcluded and the userspace page redirected. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:19, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
**:{{ping|TE(æ)A,ea.}} were you going to proofread this?  The work is within scope for content and copyright, it is the other aspects that need addressing. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:14, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
**:*[[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]]: Yes, I could proofread this. I won’t be able to easily for the next week or two, but after that (if an index is created) I can do that. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:14, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:40, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[List of Bagram detainees as of 2009-09-22]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept, without consensus; but verifiable and not user-compiled. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
It seems to me that this work seems to fall under the "reference material" precedent exlusion in [[WS:WWI]], so I want to get community consensus as to whether this document is in scope, before I invest more time in improving the transcription. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 13:52, 5 April 2023 (UTC)
:Weak {{vd}}. It is not a fully-fledged published work, it is just a table downloaded from a website. There are zillions of various tables all over the internet, so I would stick to the regulation of WWI that tables should be a "part of a complete source text" to be elligible for inclusion. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:13, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' We have many government documents, which are themselves rather short, and I think that this document is “complete” so far as our guidelines are concerned (considering that we a number of letters, notes, etc., of only a very few pages which are still “complete”). It was not traditionally published, but the same could be said of a number of other government documents—not the less that this one was released as part of a court case. I do not think that the fact of this specific document being in tabular form should bar it from being a valid work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:29, 7 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vk}} unenthusiastically. As long as it is properly curated, then I have no issue. Not saying that I encourage them, or really feel the value in them, just if they are complete documents of something notable, and usable at a WP, then they are okay. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 22:48, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}}. It is out of scope as mere data, a list compiled in response to a FOIA request; neither published in any form nor part of any larger work (an appendix to a court opinion or report or similar). Nobody has found this information of sufficient interest to publish it in this form anywhere, except the uploader here. This is exactly what the WWI exclusion is about. If we permitted this one could drown the site in similar "lists of random stuff" and be entirely within policy. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:11, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
**[[User:Xover|Xover]]: No, it’s not true that this list was “compiled in response to a FOIA request;” FOIA cannot be used to compel agencies to create new information, merely to release existing information. Thus, this file existed before its release was compelled. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:42, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
**:Quite possibly. But looking at the format of the file it seems more likely to me that it was compiled from some underlying source or sources (database, spreadsheet, etc.) in response to the FOIA request. Dumping a list of inmates in a given prison from your prisoner database isn't really "creating new information" in any relevant sense. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 05:37, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Great Battles of Bulgaria]] and [[Essential History of Bulgaria in Seven Pages]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
These texts by [[Author:Lyubomir Ivanov|Lyubomir Ivanov]] (aka [[User:Apcbg]]) are ''extracts'' from ''[http://web.archive.org/web/20090227083430/http://bezmer.info/Bezmer_guide_for_US%20military.pdf Bulgaria: Bezmer and adjacent regions — Guide for American military]'', and are therefore out of scope. Although these passages are CC-BY, the full work is copyrighted and cannot be hosted here. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 15:08, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
:What out of scope, these articles are self-contained chapters of a work not considered to be hosted here. Best, [[User:Apcbg|Apcbg]] ([[User talk:Apcbg|talk]]) 16:25, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
::[[Wikisource:What Wikisource includes]]. The works that do not meet the criteria are considered out of scope, and they can be speedy deleted or nominated for deletion. Please would you explain how these works are in scope. BT is saying that they are extracts of the original work, so not within scope. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:43, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
:::I cannot see how the concise prehistory and history of a country spanning over several dozen centuries could be "not within scope". [[User:Apcbg|Apcbg]] ([[User talk:Apcbg|talk]]) 05:19, 15 May 2023 (UTC) 
::::Scope is not determined by the subject of a work, but by the nature of the work itself. "Selected sections of a larger work are generally not acceptable" according to our policy. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:31, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' In this case, because we have self-contained portions which are allowable and the whole work is ''not'' allowable, I think they should be allowed. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:11, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
* {{neutral}} and need more information. These are not 2 distinctive works, and as such would not be hosted, they are parts of a larger document. I would expect to see all of the document or none if we look at the referenced PDF. Our WWI does not talk about self-contained components in that form, so I am not swayed by that as an argument. The work has a copyright anyway, and truly needs to have permission granted and that stored in the WMF's database of permissions anyway. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:51, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
::Self-containment is attested by its citation [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?oi=bibs&hl=bg&cites=5510369305799709679&as_sdt=5 1-7], [https://books.google.bg/books?id=kEIkDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT409&lpg=PT409&dq=%22Essential+History+of+Bulgaria+in+Seven+Pages%22&source=bl&ots=LJCES6fcc5&sig=ACfU3U2us_MRRTuv5Y6cubYOdEBTIIhrVQ&hl=bg&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjHmZPjtff-AhWFSfEDHQWIDSc4ChDoAXoECBcQAw#v=onepage&q=%22Essential%20History%20of%20Bulgaria%20in%20Seven%20Pages%22&f=false 8], [https://www.academia.edu/12909146/Diplomacy_The_Byzantine_Empires_Key_to_a_Thousand_Year_Reign 9] in academic publications. [[User:Apcbg|Apcbg]] ([[User talk:Apcbg|talk]]) 07:17, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
::I agree that these are not two distinctive works. (I am not sure why a chapter being cited in an academic publication would make it a self-contained work; publications cite individual passages all the time.) Copyright is not really an issue, as it just requires some paperwork on the part of the author. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:34, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
:::Yes publications cite individual passages but in their list of references they always reference such passages to some distinctive works; in this case, fact is citations are referenced to "Essential History etc." [[User:Apcbg|Apcbg]] ([[User talk:Apcbg|talk]]) 07:02, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
::::Umm??? References go to the published work. If it is in a serial then it one has one form of citation, if it is a book, then it is to a chapter. And you are here at English Wikisource and looking for a work to be here. The commentary that you are getting here is that we are seeing this as a two chapters of a more complete work. We either have the complete work if it is in scope, or we have nothing, per our inclusion criteria. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 22:35, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::References go to where they actually do; those above go not to a more complete work but to "Essential History etc." as a distinct work. [[User:Apcbg|Apcbg]] ([[User talk:Apcbg|talk]]) 05:59, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
::::::The work seems cited as part of a larger document, not as any individual work. There is no evidence of the publishing of the parts of document as singular documents, and any reference should be viewed as indicative, not normative. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:49, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::::"The work seems cited as part of a larger document." Not at all. With minor variations, the nine citations above are of the form "Ivanov, L. Essential History of Bulgaria in Seven Pages, Bulgarian Academy of Sciences, Sofia, March 2007." No larger document cited. [[User:Apcbg|Apcbg]] ([[User talk:Apcbg|talk]]) 06:00, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Umm, both works clearly say "First published in: L. Ivanov ed., Bulgaria: Bezmer and adjacent regions — Guide for American military, Multiprint Ltd., Sofia, 2007, ISBN 978-954-90437-8-5.", then both works link to webpages that are individual, and not any of the publications cited. {{vd}} as extracts as they are not part of their larger cited documents. That they also seem to fit the category of self-published and no authoritative review is also adding to my disquiet. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 15:26, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::"Delete as extracts as they are not part of their larger cited documents" – Not sure what this might mean. Citation in nine academic publications is an authoritative review par excellence. [[User:Apcbg|Apcbg]] ([[User talk:Apcbg|talk]]) 04:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Anglo-Saxon Superiority]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; duplicate. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:55, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
The pages are doubly transcluded, where it's also present at [[Popular Science Monthly/Volume 56/March 1900/Fragments of Science]]. It seems like the latter is the place it should be, and not at this base page. In fact, "Anglo-Saxon Superiority" seems to only be a ''section'' of the "Fragments of Science" article, and not a work in its own right. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 22:34, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:55, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Images of tables in [[Brain/Volume 31/Part 3/A Human Experiment in Nerve Division/Chapter 2]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
I have replaced the following images with HTML tables, so they are no longer necessary.

* [[:File:CompassAlmostAsleep.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassAsBefore.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassBoth.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassImproved.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassLess.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassRight.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassSleep.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassSomnolent.jpg]]
* [[:File:CompassWrong.jpg]]

—[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 22:26, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

: {{done}}, speedied [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 14:46, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Henry derozio]] ==
{{closed|1=Speedied. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
This seems to be an earlier version, with incorrect name, of what is also at [[Henry Derozio, the Eurasian, poet, teacher, and journalist]]. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 16:22, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
:{{done}}. Speedied. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:35, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[McClure's Magazine/Volume 38/Number 5/Alexander's MasqueradeAlexander's Masquerade]] ==
{{closed|1=Speedied. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Seems to be a duplicate with a wrong name of [[McClure's Magazine/Volume 38/Number 5/Alexander's Masquerade]]. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 16:32, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
: {{done}} speedied. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 00:54, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:37, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; Index and Transclusion started. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Also known as ''The Jefferson Bible'', this is an edited redux of the gospels by [[Author:Thomas Jefferson|Thomas Jefferson]].  Our current text is an incomplete copy of unknown origin containing 17 of the 89 published chapters.  There is a good scan at IA {{ext scan link|https://archive.org/details/jeffersonbibleli0000unse}}, but what we currently have is an incomplete copy added to Wikisource in 2007, but with no named source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:11, 26 June 2023 (UTC)
: The scan is already at Commons, so I'll set up an [[Index:Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth (IA lifemoralsjesusnaz00jeff).pdf]] --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:12, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[United States Headquarters Agreement]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; now scan-backed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:01, 2 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
The [[United States Headquarters Agreement]] is not formatted correctly. A new version can be found at [[UN-US Headquarters Agreement]] -- [[User:Jesuiseduardo|Jesuiseduardo]] ([[User talk:Jesuiseduardo|talk]]) 09:13, 05 October 2020 (UTC)

: These are two different works, though the critical text is (theoretically, at least!) the same:
:* [[United States Headquarters Agreement]] is the ''US Statutes at Large'', which should be proofread from the scan [[Index:United States Statutes at Large Volume 61 Part 1.djvu]], pages [[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 61 Part 1.djvu/780|756]]–[[Page:United States Statutes at Large Volume 61 Part 1.djvu/792|768]]
:* [[UN-US Headquarters Agreement]] is from the UN Treaty Series. This work should be proofread against the relevant source scan at [[Index:UN Treaty Series - vol 11.pdf]], pages [[Page:UN Treaty Series - vol 11.pdf/27|11]]–[[Page:UN Treaty Series - vol 11.pdf/57|41]].
:[[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—<small>[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]</small>   21:38, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

::retain as different editions/versions, hat note the works. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 15:04, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
::[[United States Headquarters Agreement]] is now transcluded from the USSaL. I did a initial proofread but left it marked as unproofread as I used the USStat templates but they do not produce the correct formatting for the headers (as they produce the earlier style). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 19:17, 27 March 2023 (UTC)
:::The [[UN-US Headquarters Agreement]] is now transcluded from the UN Treaty Series. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:38, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
*{{ping|Inductiveload}} You seem to have a grasp of what these works are. Could you move the editions of the same work to suitably disambiguated pages, create a versions page (or pages, if relevant), add {{tlx|other versions}}/{{tlx|similar}} hatnotes to link them together, and tag them all with {{tlx|migrate to}}? I ''think'' this and the below section are about two editions of a UN—US treaty and a distinct agreement relating to implementation of that treaty, but I quickly lose track of what's what here. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 14:55, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:01, 2 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[United States Headquarters Agreement for the United Nations]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; now scan-backed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:01, 2 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
The [[United States Headquarters Agreement for the United Nations]] is not formatted correctly. It also includes the acts of the US Congress that should not be a part of the article. A new version can be found at [[UN-US Headquarters Agreement]] -- [[User:Jesuiseduardo|Jesuiseduardo]] ([[User talk:Jesuiseduardo|talk]]) 09:13, 05 October 2020 (UTC)

: Again, these are different works that contain the same text with different "contexts":
:* [[United States Headquarters Agreement for the United Nations]] is from [[Index:U.S. Participation in the UN - Report by the President to the Congress (1947).pdf]], starting at p222.
:* [[UN-US Headquarters Agreement]] is from the UNTS v.11, as in the previous section.
: [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—<small>[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]</small>   21:56, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
::If [[user:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]] is saying that they are different editions, then retain, and ensure that we suitably disambiguate with a {{tl|versions}} page, and hat note each with {{tl|other version}} — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 15:03, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
:::I suspect the actual text edition is from {{GBS|Dc4jAQAAMAAJ}} given the title for the loan as: "Loan Agreement With the United States for the Construction of the Headquarters". Anyways, the loan agreement is in Bevens 974 / TIAS 1899 and 62 Stat. 3725 if we want to move it out and have a proofread copy of that as a separate work. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:21, 28 March 2023 (UTC)
::::United States Headquarters Agreement for the United Nations is now transcluded from the USSaL, the loan agreement is now also present as a separate work. Please clean up and handle the versions pages. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:47, 29 March 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:01, 2 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:54, 2 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
I suggest to delete this text for several reasons:

# The alleged source electronic publication is nowhere to be found. Most probably it was a sort of selfpublished "electronic book", judging also by the non-professional design of [[:File:Английская надпись.jpg|its cover]], and was not preserved permanently anywhere, now being lost forever except its Wikisource copy. As a result, it is impossible to check whether our text is faithful to this "publication" or not, or even if really all these texts were included there.
# Without the source publication it is just a random compilation of independent newspaper articles, some of which do not exist in English version.
# Many of these articles imo have copyright problems. Although the release of texts under GNU-FDL is allegedly confirmed by [[ticket:2008032110005275]], I am convinced that it applies only to the main author Andrey Lubensky, but not to all other coauthors and translators of the individual texts.

These include Valery Asadchev for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/1.21]], Andrey Derkach and translator Dmitry Sudakov for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/1.26]], Andrei Dashkov for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.2]], Vera Solovieva for e.g. [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.9]] and many others, Vladimir Mikheyev for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.3]], [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.55]] and [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.56]], Maria Gousseva for e.g. [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.4]], [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.7]] and many others, Dmitry Sudakov for e.g. [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.2]] and many others, Leonid Kuchma for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.19]], Leonid Sauta for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.23]], Major Melnichenko for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.24]] and Alexander Grigoriev for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/3.11]]. I really doubt that all these people were included in the correspondence with the OTRS team.

I [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Volunteer_Response_Team/Noticeboard#ticket:2008032110005275 asked] about the ticket at the VRT noticeboard already a week ago, but the VRT team seems to ignore the question. However, I think that the first two reasons I have raised above suffice for deletion. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:31, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The work is complete, and thus the lack of a source cannot be used as a deletion rationale. Thus, your second objection is also moot. As to your third point, I believe that the ticket permission would cover the entire work, as Mr. Lubensky would have had to have obtained the rights for the works in question, and thus would have been in contact with the authors of the respective portions of the publications. Absent doubts being raised about the scope of the ticket’s permissions, this work should be kept. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
*: I am afraid the lack of a source is a big problem, as the work has become absolutely unverifiable, nobody will ever be able to check it, and Wikisource has thus become the primary source of the compiled e-book, which is not our goal. As for copyright, it hase never been sufficient when a person declared that other people people agreed with releasing rights, they have to agree personally and communicate their agreement to OTRS/VTR. Otherwise we would soon be flooded with alleged public domain releases. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:12, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
:Here is my understanding of the situation wrt the inclusion criteria (separate from the copyright details):
:* Author publishes a series of articles in journals / newspapers. The individual articles are presumably all in scope as not self published.
:* Author then uploads these works to WS and declares this particular collection an ebook
:The question is: Can wikisoure host the works under the ebook as is or should instead the individual articles be moved out as works (e.g. under Pravda/<date>/) and then linked (either from Author or Portal) with just the Ad Notam page being deleted? The actual content seems to be in scope (provided the OTRS meets the copyright clearance requirements). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:58, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
::I don't think we have ever deleted a set of, say, ''Times'' obituaries for being a "random compilation of independent newspaper articles" and hence out of scope, or say a collection of works by a particular author scattered across a bunch of magazines? I also don't think anyone has raised concerns about things such as ''[[Landon in The Literary Gazette 1820]]'' lacking an independent source. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 02:13, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
:::The situation is different: 1) Various articles were published in a newspaper. 2) A collection of these articles was selfpublished in an e-book. At least some of these articles were not published word by word in this e-book, but they were edited first, e.g. they were translated from Russian to English, such as [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.9|this one]]. Some of them are not accessible anymore and we cannot check how much edited they were. 3) Copy of this e-book was hosted in en.ws. 4) The selfpublished e-book disappeared from the internet. [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:02, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
::::The only differences I can see are that one is born digital and one is born print and that in one case the self published ebook is hosted by en.ws and the other it was uploaded to commons. ''Landon in The Literary Gazette 1820 lacking'' doesn't exist outside of commons / en.ws either right? How do we know that we have a high fidelity copy besides trusting that the version uploaded was correct? That example has a copy hosted [https://web.archive.org/web/20021225215907/http://english.pravda.ru/main/2002/02/06/26244.html here] which is what mentioned on the page. If the entire issue here is that the source is free text in the footer rather than being listed in the header / talk page I am happy to move the links to the talk page. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 14:14, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
:::@[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]]: [[Landon in The Literary Gazette 1820]] is most emphatically out of scope and we have definitely deleted such texts before. In this particular case I have tried to work with the contributor (this is not the only such invention they have added), but they get stressed out of all proportion by it (and I don't have the stomach for leaning hard on them about it). It's a real pity because a very large portion of their work is creating new editions (compilations, mostly) that ''will'' eventually get deleted, but they otherwise do good work transcribing that could have been of great value to the project had they stuck to proofreading actually existing (previously published) works instead of constructing their own. But to the degree you considered these frankenstein compilations precedent, they most definitely are not (they're even speedyable). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:20, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
:So after long waiting for an answer on the VRT noticeboard I decided to ask a VRT volunteer personally by email and have learnt that none of the following people have released their rights, (which looks like a very bad work of the volunteers who approved the ticket):
:*Valery Asadchev for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/1.21]]
:*Andrey Derkach and translator Dmitry Sudakov for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/1.26]]
:*Andrei Dashkov for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.2]]
:*Vera Solovieva for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.9]] and many others
:*Vladimir Mikheyev for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.3]], [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.55]] and [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.56]]
:*Maria Gousseva for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.4]], [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.7]] and many others
:*Dmitry Sudakov for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.2]] and many others
:*Leonid Sauta for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.23]]
:*Major Melnichenko for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/2.24]]
:*Alexander Grigoriev for [[Ad notam. Diverse years' notes/3.11]]
:So even if my first two points were not taken into account (though I believe they should), the parts co-authored by these people need to be deleted for copyright reasons anyway.
:However, I still believe that the whole self-published collection should be deleted per what I wrote before. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:26, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. We've had problems with alleged VRT/OTRS-released works related to Lubensky before, that on inspection turn out to be nonsense (it's most likely Lubensky himself or someone connected to him doing the uploading, and they appear to have no real conception of how copyright works or take into account other people's contributions). But in any case, there seems to be a primary element of self-promotion in everything related to Lubensky's works, which makes me even less inclined than usual to accept unsourced, self-published, compilations.{{pbr}}There is a reason we have a ''previously published'' requirement, and there's a reason we forbid excerpts and annotations. This seems to be exactly that: an author (or someone close to them) ripping bits and pieces out of the context in which they were actually published (if they were actually published), creating a compilation of them designed to promote that author. So in addition to all the issues Jan notes, I think we should draw a line here due to the attempt to use the project for promotion (free web publishing, with a built-in audience and high Pagerank, with no independent editorial control). But the bottom line is: this particular "edition" exists nowhere outside Wikisource, and as such is very much out of scope. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:06, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:54, 2 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Voisine v. United States]]==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:55, 2 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
This is only the syllabus, and is besides merely a copy of the text (including headers) without formatting. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:46, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:55, 2 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== PD-old-X templates ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
* {{tl|PD-old-50}}
* {{tl|PD-old-60}}
* {{tl|PD-old-70}}
* {{tl|PD-old-75}}
* {{tl|PD-old-80}}

These templates are deprecated and not transcluded anywhere. In my opinion it would be tidier to delete them (although I am of course open to hearing  reasons why not). —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 19:57, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
*Maybe it would be better to have the template produce an error and a note mentioned appropriate copyright tags (for imports and such), deprecation aside. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 04:24, 9 January 2023 (UTC)
*:@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]], imports are a good point, thank you. Possibly these templates should add works to [[:Category:PD-old-possible-copyright-violations]]? —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 21:34, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
*:*I think that’s a good idea. A short notice about the actual copyright claim (like the original statement), then a mention of the deprecation, and a mention of the fact that “PD-old” has the potential for copyright violations, would be a good substitute. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 21:49, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
*:*:@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]], I've edited the templates accordingly. Does it look good to you? —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 07:11, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]]: These look good, thanks. I !vote '''keep'''. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:19, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} Anything that's executable code tends to create unforeseen (and often foreseen and eminently foreseeable) problems down the line, and adds to the maintenance burden (which is already not sustainable). Any imports should be checked and have a proper license added in any case, so the utility of keeping these zombie templates around is likely to be zero. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} [[:Module:PD-old]] mentions (and implements) these templates.  So if these templates are to be deleted, the Module will also need to be changed, and that requires technical skill with Modules. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:05, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
*:{{comment}} @[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I'm the one who made it implement the templates and I'm happy to make it stop. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 01:21, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
*:* @[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]]: Are you able to take care of this issue? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:09, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
*:*:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: Sure thing! I can keep an eye on the templates, and delete the <code>PD_old_only</code> functions from [[Module:PD-old]] (and <em>not</em> delete the <code>PD_old</code> functions) once the templates have been deleted. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 22:36, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

===similar speedy nominated===
*[[Template:PD-1996/text]]
*[[Template:PD-anon-50-1996]]
*[[Template:PD-anon-60-1996]]
*[[Template:PD-anon-70-1996]]
*[[Template:PD-anon-80-1996]]
*[[Template:PD-posthumous-25]]
*[[Template:PD-posthumous-50]]
*[[Template:PD-posthumous-60]]
*[[Template:PD-posthumous-70]]
*[[Template:PD-posthumous-99]]
— [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 00:29, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

:I've speedied these as they were more technical components used by other templates rather than directly usable themselves, and all now unused. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 05:18, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:33, 4 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[:Category:Arthur Rackham (Hudson)]]==
{{closed|1=deleted; images "Now Commons", category redundant — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:29, 14 April 2023 (UTC)|text=
This is just an easy alternative to many individual speedy deletion requests. I created all of the images in this category, to be replaced at a future point by images extracted from these page scans. This has now happened (see ''[[Arthur Rackham: His Life and Work]]''), and these images are no longer needed. Thus, all of the images in this category, and then the category itself, can be deleted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:13, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:14, 5 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Index:Poems of nature (IA poemsofnature00whitrich).pdf ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; unneeded duplicate with no meaningful content. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:11, 6 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
I just created this based on a file already on Commons. It turns out it's incomplete, so have created another index page with a different version of the same edition (also from Commons). Please delete this one. Thanks [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 11:56, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:11, 6 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Festival (Lovecraft&#59; Gutenberg)]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; Gutenberg copy redundant to scan-backed copy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:45, 12 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
We have a scan-backed proofread version here [[Weird Tales/Volume 5/Issue 1/The Festival]]. It has a librivox recording, so wanted to check. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:27, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:45, 12 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:Ballantyne--The Coral Island.djvu]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept pages; dedicated proofreading has corrected the difficulties. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:39, 12 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Someone ran Phe-bot to create all the Page: namespace pages, but did ''NOT'' add headers and did ''NOT'' use the text layers from the scan.  It looks as though a Match-and-Split was performed using some other text, possibly Gutenberg, and the result is that every page has a dozen punctuation mismatches, several text mismatches, different capitalization, different hyphenation, and even different words.

This has been set up for the Monthly Challenge, but we need a clean and correct starting text.  I'd like someone with a bot to delete all the unproofread pages.  If necessary, we can then run a bot to correctly generate the unproofed pages from the scan's text layer with headers, but working from the current pages will be hugely frustrating and likely result in lots and lots of unspotted errors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:20, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

:@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: It was Match&Split by [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] on November 8th last year, and the source was the pages in [[The Coral Island]] who, since [[Special:Diff/10822087|this edit]], claim to be from this index. Since the text is already transcluded we're actually discussing deleting the whole text and starting over.{{pbr}}@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: It's generally not a good idea to Match&Split a text that you're not planning to immediately proofread. The claims that a text is from a particular scan, or even jut from a particular edition, are often iffy; and even when they're accurate, if the text was not proofread using Proofread Page the likelihood of there being this kind of subtle errors present is high. For anyone new—and especially less experienced users—discovering those errors is very difficult. For my own part I always cross-check such text against the OCR for that very reason. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
:::Fair comment, but you are convincing me that the current model here doesn't work. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:38, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::::Which model? [[Help:Match and split]] has been in place since 2012, and advocates ''extreme'' care if match-and-split is to be done.  Generally, it's a bad idea unless you are ''absolutely'' sure the scan and other text come from ''exactly'' the same source.  In this case, they did not.  The copy we had before was from an unknown source, and either the check against the proposed scan concluded incorrectly that they were the same, or the check was not made, despite the warning on [[Help:Match and split]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

* I'm going to extend my nomination to ALL pages, including the ones that have been "proofread", since User:ShakespeareFan00 has started rushing through proofreading today, but isn't catching the many differences in punctuation, spelling, and hyphenation. [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page%3ABallantyne--The_Coral_Island.djvu%2F66&diff=13296928&oldid=13296789 Here] is a page I validated after he proofread it today.  Even the "proofread" pages contain the same level of errors as those that have not been proofread.  We should wipe the slate clean and restart this one using the text layer. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:04, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
*:I try , but it seems I am not doing it carefully enough. Endorse deletion. 
*:Let's consider dropping Match and Split as an Index status entirely as well. 
*:The Match and Split tools could still be used, but using a closed access list like AWB? Which would also mean removing them from visible Gadgets? [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 19:17, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
*:The Unsourced (possibly PG) is using British Spelling, whereas the Scans are using US. 
*:Do you have a list of the first printings of this in the United Kingdom and the United States?, scan I found (for a British Printing) was around 1900 on IA, which is considerably after the work was originally published.
*:[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 10:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:39, 12 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:Index:US Constitution in Georgian language.pdf]] ==
{{closed|1=Closed; speedied as empty and beyond scope. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:40, 12 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Non-english language work,  Possibly a speedy, but 'Not english' wasn't one of the listed criteria.[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:44, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

:@[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]]: Non-English works are out of scope, unless actually used for a Wikisource translation (well, or there is reasonable indication that it will be in the near future). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:03, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

* '''Speedied''', as beyond scope empty Index. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:08, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:40, 12 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer (343 U.S. 579)]] ==
{{closed|1=kept, no consensus to delete — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:05, 14 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
Scrambled mess of references, Delete and start again with KNOWN scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 09:04, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

: Also - [[Youngstown Sheet & Tube Company v. Sawyer (343 U.S. 579)/Concurrence Frankfurter]]
*'''Keep''' absent an immediate replacement. It’s not ''that'' bad. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:59, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
* {{vk}} What [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] said. There is also a string of others in similar situations by BenchBot. They harm no one, and they can be somewhat tidied.  Seems that there are two opinions that are hosed, one empty, one with superfluous. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 22:18, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
*:What is the status of USReports? -  https://www.loc.gov/item/usrep343579/   This could be done from a scan. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 22:27, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:19, 18 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:Template:Page styles]] ==
{{closed|1=deleted per discussion — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:04, 14 June 2023 (UTC)|text=
The remaining uses of this were migrated to be IndexStyles, making the template unused.
{{ping|Inductiveload}} this was a template you seem to have had a part in, before IndexStyles existed, your thoughts?
[[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 06:38, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

: {{vd}} Yes, this should be deleted. [[User:Inductiveload|Inductiveload]]—<span style="font-size:smaller">[[User talk:Inductiveload|talk]]/[[Special:Contributions/Inductiveload|contribs]]</span> 07:29, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Agreed, this template is now obsolete. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 06:23, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:18, 18 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Obsolete CSS pages ==
{{closed|1=speedied|text=
[[Template:RunningHeader-centered/styles.css]] and [[Template:Rh/3/styles.css]] are now unused and redundant to [[Template:Rh/1/styles.css]], and I can't request speedy deletion because they're CSS pages. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 01:28, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:18, 18 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Service]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept, no rationale provided for delete tag.|text=Saw that this redirect was tagged for deletion in January but the discussion was never created. Given that it breaks the redirect we should resolve it one way or the other. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:32, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} Deletion tag removed.  Since no reason was given in the template or edit history, and no discussion started here, there is no basis for a deletion discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:11, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Subvisser5|Subvisser5]] FYI for reference or if you want to comment. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 23:32, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
*::I'm very sorry for this mistake. Unfortunately, I don't remember why I jumped for deletion. I understand the seriousness of deleting something without explanation or discussion, and it won't happen again. I'm glad the redirect is back up. [[User:Subvisser5|Subvisser5]] ([[User talk:Subvisser5|talk]]) 02:33, 18 July 2023 (UTC)}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:17, 18 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:Weird Tales Volume 3 Number 1 (1923-12).pdf]] ==
{{closed|1=Speedied as redudant|text=This has been superseded by [[Index:Weird Tales Volume 3 Number 1 (1923-12).djvu]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:31, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
* '''Speedied''', since it is redundant and has no proofread pages associated with it. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
*:Cheers ! -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:46, 20 July 2023 (UTC)}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:47, 23 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Plowman's Tale]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; now scan-backed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Added in 2006, and split in 2009, it is an anonymous text that has remained without source since that time. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:04, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*A copy may be found [https://archive.org/details/chaucerianandoth00chauuoft/page/146/ here], and the texts definitely seem to match. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:16, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*: So, this has been extracted from a larger work, and has had all the footnotes stripped from it.  That's more reason for deletion, not a reason to keep. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:19, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*It would be allowed as a deannotated work; I ask for the scan as an index for backing. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*:A de-annotated copy is permitted ''provided'' a copy of the original exists.  No such copy currently exists on Wikisource. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:59, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*“I ask for the scan as an index for backing.” [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:30, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*: Is this: [[Index:Chaucer - Complete works (Skeat Volume 7).djvu]] the correct scan?  If so, there is already an Index started. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:31, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*:*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: How would you handle the notes? It reminds me of the Yale Shakespeare, but the notes are more numerous and are with some frequently more than once per line (''versus'' the ones listed at the bottom). I want to hold off on proofreading until there’s a good system in place. Also, I think I should be able to start working on the Treaty of Versailles soon. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:59, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*:*:That might need to be part of a Scriptorium discussion.  I haven't thoroughly looked over the series to be able to make a recommendation.  It might be possible to handle it like we did in the Yale Shakespeare, but I'd need to spend time looking over more thoroughly and allow time for consideration. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:08, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*:*: I've looked at what the footnotes are used for, and I think a section split like we did on the Yale Shakespeare should work.  However, I'm not in favor of adding the footnotes as pop-ups, like we did for the Yale Series.  In that series, the footnotes were explanatory glosses, but in the Chaucer volume, they are rejected readings.  Putting those in as pop-ups might cause readers to interpret them as corrections. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:46, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: How does it look? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 17:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
*: It looks fine to me, though I would use an Aux ToC on the first page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:53, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
*: I would also move the page, since it's included as part of a larger work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:55, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:53, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

==Foreign language indexes without local (original) copies and no local work on translation==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
From [[User:VGPaleontologist|VGPaleontologist]]:
*[[Index:NLC416-13jh006150-74476 錫滬路工程總報告.pdf]]
*[[Index:Opere, di Ambrogio Bertrandi (IA b28770882 0004).pdf]]
*[[Index:CADAL02119560 子史鈎沈（十一）.djvu]]
*[[Index:Traite clinique des maladies du coeur (IA b21983562).pdf]]
*[[Index:SSID-12362788 山中白雲詞 卷4-6.pdf]]
*[[Index:SSID-11838585 林產.pdf]]
*[[Index:ДАКО 384-7-48. 1897. Листи перепису і підрахунку, Канівський повіт Потоцька с. Коритище, переписна 5-а, рахункова 4-а, частина 1.pdf]]
*[[Index:Bukarester Tagblatt 1880-08-13, nr. 004.pdf]]
*[[Index:Bukarester Tagblatt 1880-08-12, nr. 003.pdf]]
*[[Index:Bukarester Tagblatt 1880-08-11, nr. 002.pdf]]
*[[Index:Bukarester Tagblatt 1880-08-10, nr. 001.pdf]]
*[[Index:Полтавские епархиальные ведомости. 1864. №07 (неофиц.).pdf]]
*[[Index:Труды членов Российской духовной миссии в Пекине Т 3 1857.pdf]]
*[[Index:Utrechtsche courant 03-09-1810 (IA ddd 010244724 mpeg21).pdf]]
*[[Index:Archiv für österreichische Geschichte. Notizenblatt (IA archivfrsterrei57kommgoog).pdf]]
*[[Index:Untersuchungen über die Bryozoen des süssen Wassers (IA untersuchungen02brae).pdf]]
*[[Index:Maktoobaat Imam Rabbani (part-4) (IA in.ernet.dli.2015.433557).pdf]]
*[[Index:Medical Heritage Library (IA b30532589 0014).pdf]]
*[[Index:Abécédaire du Salon de 1861 (IA abcdairedusalon00gautgoog).pdf]]
*[[Index:CADAL06210269 皇清經解：尚書後案.djvu]]
*[[Index:NLC892-GBZX0301012980-258719 藍山詩集 六卷 第5冊.pdf]]
*[[Index:CADAL02068029 豐川全集（二十二）.djvu]]
*[[Index:NLC403-312001074697-150438 重修襄垣縣誌 清光緒6年(1880) 卷五.pdf]]
*[[Index:NLC892-411999005947-8285 道藏 第2462冊.pdf]]
*[[Index:Real museo borbonico (IA realmuseoborboni04pist 4).pdf]]
*[[Index:Het beleg van Alkmaar (2) 1573.jpg]]
There are some other indexes which are close, but all of the above (1) are not in English, (2) have no transcription work on the relative Wikisource, and (3) have no local translation work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:42, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

:If it's against the rules, go for it. I'll stop putting foreign-language documents on either way. Personally, I don't know enough about the internal policies of Wikisource to have a valid opinion on the matter. [[User:VGPaleontologist|VGPaleontologist]] ([[User talk:VGPaleontologist|talk]]) 02:46, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
:*So far as I’m aware, the lack of a local transcription is a rule violation, but it is not well enforced. I personally think these indexes are simply unhelpful, as there’s no real potential for work on them because they are not in English. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:48, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
:*:Note that there is proposed policy about hosting translations: [[Wikisource:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]]. Specifically, "A scan supported original language work must be present on the appropriate language wiki," so according to that proposed policy that is where they should be proofread first, before bringing them over to English WS for proofreading into an English translation. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:06, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

I've speedied [[Index:Het beleg van Alkmaar (2) 1573.jpg]], since it's a map, and beyond scope. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:23, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
{{comment}} if they are actively being translated, or have started being translated then they are okay. If the Index: ns pages are being created in the hope that someone, somewhere will create them, then they should not be created. Am I concerned about those existing? Not truly fussed to the point of demanding them deleted. Just leave their creation to someone wishing to actively translate. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 07:43, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

*Also [[Index:Flora da Usina São José, Igarassu, Pernambuco - Sapindaceae.pdf]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:45, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
*: That one will need to be listed separately, along with the three Author pages created for its coauthors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:59, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Tim Chilcott]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:01, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
This author page lists only translations published on the internet.  A search shows that these translations are internet-only, and are self-published at the TCLT (Tim Chilcott Literary Translations).  As none of these translations have anything but self-publication to the internet, they are out of scope, besides all being under copyright for the remaining life of the author plus 70 additional years. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:51, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}}, clearly has no practical use to us. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 03:53, 14 July 2023 (UTC)
::{{vd}} The author lists them as available provided as Attribution (fine) and  Non-Commercial (not, see [[Help:Licensing compatibility]]) "I am pleased to give permission for the translations and accompanying material on the site to be copied, on condition only that the customary appropriate acknowledgements are made, and that the copying is not undertaken for profit.". [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:08, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

* {{vk}} for works out of copyright, remove those within copyright. The purpose of author pages is to list freely available pages, and we long ago decided that pages at other sites could be listed if they fulfilled our general criteria for listing with regard to copyright. How are these listings any different from those we had to Wikilibre? — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 03:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
*: They're different because the licensing is incompatible ''AND'' because the translations are self-published straight to the internet.  We wouldn't host such translations here.  The oldest listings are those he self-published in 2003, so they're ''all'' under the incompatible license. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 14:40, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
*::Among other things, it is not clear what the licensing is, works at Wikilivre actually have standardized licenses like CC-BY-NC-ND, this just has the vague sentence elsewhere on the site which is extremely restrictive. When you say "freely available", does that just mean "available without cost" or "available under a free license", because this really is much more like the former than the latter,. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:56, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
: {{ping|Billinghurst}} The premise is that ''none'' of the works listed on that author page are freely licensed by ''English Wikisource licensing standards''. So the challenge would then be, if we were to keep this author page, that you would need to produce even one example of a work that ''would'' fit our licensing standards (i.e. isn't non-derivative, isn't non-commercial, etc.). As far as I can tell, I can't see any works that would fit these criteria, but maybe my eyes are failing me. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 17:17, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
:::I was cutting the middle ground in that I am not against an author page with translations ''per se'' which seemed to be the lead. The content of copyright linked works should be removed and can be speedied in deleting from the page, that doesn't need discussion here.  If there is anything left, it stays, if there is not, and there is unlikely to be, then it goes, and that has long been the consensus for modern authors, and we have already speedied those. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:22, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
::My understanding is that the claims is that we may keep and link to works lists hosted elsewhere on author pages if a. They are public domain outside the US b. They are licensed under a free but more restrictive license  (e.g. a CC-BY-ND). So for example there would be nothing wrong with an author page that contains links to scans hosted in the UK / Australia of works from 1930 to 1950 of an author who died in 1950, even though they technically would not have any works that meet English WS standards. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:38, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
:::It isn't clear to me whether the claim is in favor allowing author pages collecting links of contemporary authors to commercial publications (e.g. short stories published by contemporary authors on various magazine / commercial websites), per [[Wikisource:Copyright_policy#Original_works_including_translations]]  those links are permissible. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:43, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
:::: {{ping|MarkLSteadman}} I'm confused about why option "b" would be okay though. If it's CC-BY-ND or non-commercial, it doesn't even have the ''chance'' of ever being a work we could host, at least not in any of our lifetimes...unless the license were to be arbitrarily changed for some reason. At least I can understand an Australia work that's not PD, since that'll be PD within the coming years/few decades, but one of those restrictive CC BY licenses just doesn't fit in that category IMO. I'm concerned if our policy allows such a thing. And maybe that's more of a Scriptorium discussion than something for here, but it is...concerning. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 21:25, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::I can understand why such an argument might be made, but this particular instance is a poor case: there are no links to the author from texts, it lacks any particular notability (lacks a WP page) of these translations and they are no clearly licensed. In addition, many of these works (such as the Gospels, Voltaire, Racine, etc.) already exist here in translations. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:50, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
{{dhr}}
: So, we should '''definitely delete''' the author page now, because as suggested above, I had to remove '''every single one of the works listed on the page''', because after doing the incredibly tedious task of searching each PDF listed, I could not even find ''a single one'' that was even '''anything but copyrighted...''' So these translations are not even just out of scope by some technicality like "no derivatives"; they're ''completely'' out of scope. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 03:08, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:01, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Pulaski's Letters to George Washington]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
French language work that should be at frWS though I guess in two parts. Either way, out of scope for us in the written language. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:48, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} Beyond scope, as they are not written in English. The WD item will also need to be posted for deletion at Wikidata after we delete the local item. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
**{{ping|EncycloPetey}} Training WD about the scope of our works is difficult. I am still having the argument that versions of chapters are not in scope for them. <shrug> — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 03:22, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
**: But deletion of "empty" items is straightforward.  Once there is no content for a WD item, which existed solely for a Wikisource work, and that has been deleted, saying so is reason enough for it to be deleted there. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:24, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
**::It can still have notability, even if there is not a link. Depends on how the item is defined. The issue here is that it is a combination of letters. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:08, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
**:::But in this situation, the Wikidata item contains ''no identifying data'': merely a link to the page here on WS and the page name as an identifier, with no further information.  When no publication information that would identify the item exists in the WD item, deletion is uncontroversial.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:15, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:05, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Story of Mr. Popkiss Told]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; redundant with erroneous title. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:07, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
This seems to be an earlier version of [[The Story Mr. Popkiss Told]] with an excess "of" in the name. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 20:29, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:07, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

==Duplicative Gutenberg Versions of Lovecraft Stories==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:15, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
These three works all are originally from Gutenberg but now scan-backed versions from ''Weird Tales'' exist. Some of librivox etc. 

* "[[The Hound (Gutenberg)]]", now scan-backed at "[[Weird Tales/Volume 3/Issue 2/The Hound]]" and "[[Weird Tales/Volume 14/Issue 3/The Hound]]"
* "[[The Outsider (Gutenberg)]]", now scan-backed at "[[Weird Tales/Volume 7/Issue 4/The Outsider]]"
* "[[The Rats in the Walls (Gutenberg)]]", now scan-backed at "[[Weird Tales/Volume 3/Issue 3/The Rats in the Walls]]"

Grouping together as they should be relatively uncontroversial. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:26, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:15, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Republic (Gutenberg edition)]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:29, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
This was [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions/Archives/2021#The_Republic_(Gutenberg_edition)|opened for discussion in 2021]] and ended up in the archives, apparently without resolution and consensus, partly waiting on scan-backing of a copy. A scan-backed copy now exists [[The Republic of Plato]] as of May of this year. Renominating for deletion as it is now duplicative of a scan-backed edition. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:42, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:29, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Page:Alexander and Dindimus (Skeat 1878).djvu/151]], [[Page:Alexander and Dindimus (Skeat 1878).djvu/152]], [[Page:Alexander and Dindimus (Skeat 1878).djvu/153]], [[Page:Alexander and Dindimus (Skeat 1878).djvu/154]],  ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:09, 28 July 2023 (UTC)|text=
Four pages which are blank "overscans"; not required and not linked by the Index. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:58, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:09, 28 July 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Constitution of India]] ==
{{closed|1=Converted to Versions page listing two specific editions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:22, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
This work was probably originally added as a secondary transcription of the 1949 version of the constitution, but I often see somebody adding later amendments and thus making it a compilation of versions, where it is impossible to distinguish what comes from 1949 and what is a later addition. Trying to stop all the good-will contributors is a Sisyphean task without the work being scan-backed, especially as two of the three links in the talk page are dead and the third one refers to the 1996 version instead. The problem was already noted by a user in 2018, who [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AConstitution_of_India&type=revision&diff=7610566&oldid=5494989 commented on it] at the constitution's talk page too. Therefore I suggest deleting this compilation and thus creating space for a scanbacked version (or, even better, versions). -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:55, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
*There is a PDF version of the Constitution, as updated, available [[:File:Constitution of India (9 Sep 2020).pdf|here]], and a fully-proofread copy of the original constitution already transcluded [[The Constitution of India (Original Calligraphed and Illuminated Version)|here]]. A versions page seems appropriate. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:00, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

{{comment}} Numbers of Indian foundation documents need to go back and be properly versioned and restarted afresh with DJVU scans of originals. So I am in favour of their deletion ONCE we have a project in place to get this right AND properly explained in what we are looking to do. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 00:29, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:22, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:Felt’s Parliamentary Procedure.pdf]]==
{{closed|1=Deleted; redundant file that is also corrupted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:38, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
Some work needs to be done with this on Commons. This file is corrupt, and was replaced with [[Index:Felt’s Parliamentary Procedure Upload 2.pdf]]. The original file should be deleted, the new file name redirected to the old file name, the index for the old file deleted, and the index and pages for the new file moved over. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:47, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} That kind of file moving requires someone with admin privileges on Commons. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 13:35, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:38, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:Legends of the Gods.pdf]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
Second-hand transcription; the source PDF has metadata indicating it was printed from an OpenOffice document. [[User:Omphalographer|Omphalographer]] ([[User talk:Omphalographer|talk]]) 06:05, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}}. Per nom. There is an IA scan https://archive.org/details/books-on-egypt-and-chaldaea-1-33/32%20Egyptian%20Literature%2C%20v1/ and a relatively-poor quality scan available of the 1912 publication on Hathi: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100638867 [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 12:48, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' Have you alerted the user who is working on this ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 12:59, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
::Whoops. I have now. [[User:Omphalographer|Omphalographer]] ([[User talk:Omphalographer|talk]]) 18:15, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
:::Note that a source based on the IA scan was started [[Index:Books on Egypt and Chaldaea, Vol. 32--Legends of the Gods.pdf]] [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:14, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:26, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Abraham Lincoln Brigade]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; excerpt, and not a work in its own right. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
As said by [[User:John Vandenberg|John Vandenberg]] in 2007: "The description indicates that this is not a PD source text, but rather was published as part of a book (OCLC:14881652all editions?). As a result, I think this falls beyond the scope of the main namespace." [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 20:35, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
: So in other words, apparently not a work in its own right. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 20:41, 24 July 2023 (UTC)
* '''Keep'''  A list of names is not eligible for copyright for the same reason a phone book cannot be copyrighted. There is no creative input beyond copying names. If you were to assign two people the task, they would come up with the same list. Whereas, if you tasked two people to create a page long short story about the Abraham Lincoln Brigade, they would be different because of their individual creative input. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 02:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )}} And I agree with everything you said. And if it was a fully published work that was just a directory, I would never propose a work like this for deletion. But my particular issue with it is that it's ''not'' a work in its own right in any sense, but rather an excerpt from a larger work that is in full (presumably) still under copyright. I do disagree with Wikisource explicitly trying to scope out works that are directories, if there is a valid source behind said directories—but in this case that's not the issue I have with the [[Abraham Lincoln Brigade]] page. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 07:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} As a mere listing of names (data) and as an excerpt it is [[WS:WWI|out of scope]], and as its publishing context was a 1985 pamphlet protected by copyright it cannot be made to be in scope until around 2055 or so (depending on the details of the copyright term). I can't offhand think of anywhere in the Wikimedia universe this content would fit—unless Wikipedia would accept it as a list article, but I doubt they would—so the best alternative I can suggest is keeping it in your userspace for reference (but note that the ALBA has an [https://alba-valb.org/volunteer-database/ online database] of these, e.g. [https://alba-valb.org/volunteers/william-oliver-aalto/ William Aalto], that's a better reference). --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:: Noting that while I agree with the sentiment of deleting this work based on it being an extract, I have issues with the Wikisource community trying to explicitly scope out listings of names. I do think they'd have a place here if the listings were a complete work and scan-backed. Part of what WWI says on the matter is, "Such information has not been previously published, is often user-compiled and unverified, and does not fit the goals of Wikisource." Not always previously published, not always user-compiled or even unverified. I get the sentiment—we don't just want users dumping their lists of data here and calling those works—but an official church directory with no images, or a compilation of weather data on paper by the National Weather Service, for example, ''is'' a work, and should be treated as such. So I'm not disagreeing with the vote, but if the circumstances of it being an excerpt were different, I would be voting Keep. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 07:28, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]]: Such listings, when they could be argued to be in scope, are typically appendices of a report or have some enrichment (such as a dictionary). When appearing in such a context they have ''context'', scope, notability, etc. WWI doesn't scope out "lists of names", it scopes out ''mere'' lists of names and other things that are just data, when they appear devoid of context. The raw data from the weather service is pointless to host here. A paper from the weather service that includes copious data in appendices is fine. But those are the nuanced bits: the essence is that people invariably want to dump "lists of stuff" somewhere in the wikiverse, and Wikisource superficially ''seems'' like the perfect place for it, so we need to scope out that stuff to not be drowned in cut&pastes of arbitrary lists.{{pbr}}Also note that experience shows that a lot of the things that would fall into the gray areas here—such as some old train tables, mostly just data but with just enough annotation and textual info to make them arguably in scope—are also a very poor fit for our workflows and tools. We are just simply not set up to easily work with or do a very good job of things that deviate very far from "traditional book with chapters of prose text". Take movies, complex visual magazine layouts, and comic books as one end of the spectrum (formatting these in a way that is useful is at best a pain, and we provide little fidelity to the original work), of which mere lists and data is the other extreme. We have our useful mission around the center of the scale and the further out towards the edges we get the worse a fit we are, and we have to draw a line somewhere. On the visual end our documented hard line is "no text" (I ''just'' images), but it should probably be drawn a little closer to the middle. I'd ''love'' to do comics and complex magazine layouts here, but we just don't have the tools and can't do them justice. I've not looked in detail at the films, but from what I've seen the tooling looks like a hack so if it works I think that's a credit to the contributors working in the area rather than the tools. The situation is even worse on the data end of the spectrum. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:::: {{ping|Xover}} I'm the one who can talk about the tooling for films because I made those tools, and yes, the situation with films is a mess. As if our transcription process wasn't already excessively complicated and repetitive to begin with, for films it's '''nearly impossible''' to work with on Wikisource's ProofreadPage software. If you do it with the "intended" method, you have to enter each individual timestamp ''two times in a row'' just to make a pagelist and transclude it, and then you have to create the pages. And if you mess something up, i.e. there's a line you accidentally missed, '''all''' the pages have to be moved to account for that, for every single missed line. And if you don't have the video playing somewhere in another window, you will have to skip to the timestamp you want for every page (assuming you can remember what that timestamp was), which is horribly inconvenient and makes ProofreadPage in its own right almost useless.
:::: So we work on films through [[Wikisource:WikiProject Film/Drafts]] (a page I created and maintain) as a countermeasure, something to make the process easier and more straightforward. For now, it's better to work on films on single page than through the normal means. The fixes for films in ProofreadPage are doable ''in theory'', but the question is whether or not the software team behind ProofreadPage will look into it within the next 10 years. And really if they're going to look into fixing film, they might as well do some fixes for our work in general. And I have it on my mental list of things to do to formally propose such improvements, but give me time.
:::: So you make a fair point. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 08:23, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:50, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
* Isn't every news article we host an extract from a published work? The ''issue'' of the newspaper is the work and the ''news item'' an extract? How is that different than this situation? If an extract can be read as a self contained entity it should be kept. --[[User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|RAN]] ([[User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )|talk]]) 15:00, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
*: No.  A news article has a byline indicating its author, and since it has a separate author, it is a separate work.  The same applies to pulp magazines, where some of the stories are allowable here because copyright has expired, but others in the same issue are not hosted because they are still under copyright.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
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:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:21, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>
: {{comment}} for anyone who might be interested — The work that this is excerpted from, ''No Pasaran: The 50th Anniversary of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade'', may actually be public domain in its own right. (Maybe, hopefully, fingers crossed). I'm not seeing any registrations in the Copyright Office, and online sources say it was published in 1985 in New York. So, considering that it's an obscure pamphlet, I'd wager it's possible they left out the copyright notice, in which case it's public domain. This would certainly not be an argument for keeping just the directory excerpt as hosted as [[Abraham Lincoln Brigade]], but it would be an interesting project. I may just look into getting my own copy of this to verify my suspicion that it's public-domain. Unfortunately, I can't find any scans online, so I can't verify it lacks a notice, but the possibility is certainly there that it does... And having a transcription would incidentally save the content of the page we had to delete here. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 19:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

== [[Peasant Stories]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; redundant.  Two scan-backed copies exist. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
This work only has the introduction by Tolstoy which was separately translated and is now [[The Complete Works of Count Tolstoy/Volume 20/S. T. Seménov's Peasant Stories|scan-backed]] in the collection where that translation appears. A very quick search showed no public domain translations of this collection. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:12, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
*{{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:58, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
*{{vd}} as per nomination. The sub-page [[Peasant Stories/Introduction by Leo Tolstoy]] should also go. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 11:30, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:14, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:Flora da Usina São José, Igarassu, Pernambuco - Sapindaceae.pdf]]==
{{closed|1=Deleted; non-English work is out of scope and Authors have no known hostable works. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
Apparently this needs to be listed separately? See [[#Foreign language indexes without local (original) copies and no local work on translation|§ Foreign language indexes without local (original) copies and no local work on translation]], ''supra'', for the reasoning and discussion. See also the three Author: pages for three (of five) co-authors, with no other works listed: [[Author:Marccus Vinicius da Silva Alves]], [[Author:Genise Vieira Somner]], and [[Author:Maria Regina de Vasconcellos Barbosa]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:57, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
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:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:24, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:Box left]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; unused and now redundant. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
Unused, redundant to {{tlx|centered box|<nowiki>align=left|...</nowiki>}} and {{tl|border2}}. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:28, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:15, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[On the Nature of Things (Watson)]]==
{{closed|1=Deleted; consisted of only Preface with no source identified. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
Only the preface since 2018.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} as nearly empty, a more complete transcription would of course be welcome. There is a scan copy on IA [https://archive.org/details/lucretiusonthen00lucruoft]  if we want to migrate the two pages to Page NS in case anyone is particularly attached to them being somewhere. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 18:07, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
:: I've no knowledge about the utility of this edition, but some pages are 80% or even 90% footnotes, so it is not a translation I would ever care to work on. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:36, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
:::My very quick search is that the Munro translation is the more important of the two which we also lack. The preface itself doesn't appear to have much utility by itself. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 22:17, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
::::Munro is important because the volume contains parallel Latin and English text.  Volume I has the Latin on the top half of the page, and the English on the bottom half.  Volume II is all the notes.  It would be a complicated edition to host, and would lose a lot of its value with the Latin not displayed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:06, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
*There are apparently [[w:List of English translations of De rerum natura|''many'' translations]] of this work, and seeing as how this is only the preface, I don’t see much use in keeping it. If an index is to be created, (as it looks to be a somewhat important work,) the best available English translation should be selected, not just the one we happen to have the preface of. See also [[On the Nature of Things]]. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
*: I have looked there, and the Leonard translation is on my list of things to scan-back.  Our current copy, although from Gutenberg, is at least complete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:06, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
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:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Sehnsucht im Zwielicht]] ==
{{closed|1=Speedied; out of scope. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
The actual work is in German, so shouldn't be here; there is a long commentary, for which no source or author is given - so that may or may not be PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 22:07, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
: Since this is a recent addition that is clearly out of scope, just mark it for Speedy deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:40, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== File:Figure 3 NPTEL Interface.jpg + File:Figure 2 CEC LOR Interface.jpg ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; non-free images incompatible with WS licensing. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
Please delete the following files:
* [[:File:Figure 3 NPTEL Interface.jpg]]
* [[:File:Figure 2 CEC LOR Interface.jpg]]

They were recreated locally on Wikisource, after [[c:Commons:Deletion requests/Files in Category:A Basic Guide to Open Educational Resources|a Commons DR showed they were non-free]]. —'''Matr1x-101'''<math>^{Ping-me}_{when-replying}</math> <nowiki>{</nowiki>''[[User:Matr1x-101|<sub>user page</sub>]] [[:commons:User:Matr1x-101|<sup>(@ commons)</sup>]] - [[User:Matr1x-101|<sub>talk</sub>]]<nowiki>}</nowiki>'' 20:41, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
*[[User:Matr1x-101|Matr1x-101]]: I fixed your deletion request reference. Also, as this is a copyright matter, it should be handled at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions]]. Given that the file contains these images (and others with non-free licensing) without redaction, the file comes before the images. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 21:00, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
*:{{ping|TE(æ)A,ea|p=}}, looks like someone ([[User:Xover]]) has already started a discussion at [[Wikisource:Copyright discussions]] — I must have completely missed that! —'''Matr1x-101'''<math>^{Ping-me}_{when-replying}</math> <nowiki>{</nowiki>''[[User:Matr1x-101|<sub>user page</sub>]] [[:commons:User:Matr1x-101|<sup>(@ commons)</sup>]] - [[User:Matr1x-101|<sub>talk</sub>]]<nowiki>}</nowiki>'' 21:34, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
*::My mistake, I was chasing missing image tags and spotted those were marked as being required. I assumed that they were OK to add because other images in the source file were already tagged as non free, I incorrectly assumed the research had been done and those were OK to add. Please go ahead and delete them. [[User:Sp1nd01|Sp1nd01]] ([[User talk:Sp1nd01|talk]]) 22:13, 30 May 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:15, 12 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:Fair Use]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept, but revised per discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:18, 12 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
The documentation itself states why this template shouldn't be here:

"Wikisource does not apply the fair use doctrine at this time, as by our policy Wikisource:What Wikisource includes. This license is not acceptable at English Wikisource for licensing works, with further explanation at Wikisource:Licensing."

So what is the purpose? It's only misleading people into thinking there's some validity to a fair use licensing at Wikisource, as per a recent comment on [[User talk:Billinghurst]], and [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Fair_Use|WhatLinksHere]] does not show ''any'' actual uses of the template; only happenstance mentions in discussions. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 20:03, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
*I assume that the template exists for the same reason as that on Commons, namely, so that people who try to use it will see that it is not a valid template. The template clearly states as much, so I don’t know how anyone could confuse the issue. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:42, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
:: Well it seems like all it's accomplished is confusing people. Someone can easily use the template or refer to it without reading the documentation, since nowhere on the template itself does it state that the license is invalid for enWS.
:: And if you look into the history of why the template was created, it looks to me like it was created for political reasons. [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2016-10]] is the first mention of the template, by [[User:Slowking4|Slowking4]], the person who created the template, and it seems to have been created alongside said discussion. The user who created it was the one who proposed in 2016 that Wikisource have an Exemption Doctrine Policy, i.e. allow fair use. It seems like the template was ''not'' created as a way to dissuade users from adding the template, but to prepare for what was thought to be a future change in our policy regarding fair use (however, that discussion ended with no consensus to change policy).
:: [[Template:Fair Use/doc|The documentation page]] was not even created until nearly 2 years later, in 2018, by [[User:Billinghurst|Billinghurst]], to clarify that the template shouldn't be used here.
:: I don't think the evidence shows that our fair use license template is effective at discouraging people from adding the template, nor was it even apparently the original intention of the template's creation. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 20:57, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
::: We can have it or not, as long as it is not used, and if it is the way of having the clarity that we don't allow fair use, then it is reasonable. We can always track its use or attempted use through abuse filters. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:17, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
::*I think the content and the documentation should be switched. The actual display of the template should be similar to that of the Commons template, stating clearly that fair use is not (currently) allowed here (in any form), while the documentation can mention previous discussions on the topic (and reasons for the rejection of the fair use doctrine here). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:18, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
::*:How's this? {{tl|Fair Use/sandbox}} —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 18:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
::*:*Looks good to me. Maybe the WWI reference should go to a specific discussion, or perhaps a fair use-specific documentation (which should be created if it does not already exist). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:48, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
::*:*:Sounds good. I've made the phrasing of the template clearer, replaced the WWI link with a link to [[Wikisource:Copyright policy]], and added a link to [[Help:Licensing compatibility#Fair use]]. I've also transcluded the fair use section of the latter page to the template documentation. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 04:16, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
{{comment}} I documented a template, nothing more. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:05, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} There's no demonstrated use for this template, and we do not create templates for all the licenses and copyright statuses that we do ''not'' permit on the project. Slowking created it optimistically during one of the old discussions—as one tends to do when discussing such things—but it's never had any actual use beyond being a strawman example for that discussion and should have been deleted when that proposal went nowhere. And in general we should work diligently to ''reduce'' the number of templates and amount of code we need to maintain on the project, not add more for which there is no demonstrated actual need. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:20, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:: That is another good point—should we create templates for every CC BY, etc., license, then, that doesn't permit commercial use or derivatives? Logically that'd be the precedent we'd come to if we kept the Fair Use template, and I'd say we really don't need those either.
:: The only purpose the template has served thus far is confusing editors who are apparently used to Wikipedia into thinking we might have similar rules to them on Fair Use. And I do like the proposed change to the template—that is, if we're going to have it at all, the content Calendula proposed is great for that—but, unfortunately, linking to the template as has been done previously does not necessarily require that someone read any of it. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 06:47, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
::*In my mind, it is clear that we don’t want “alternative” licenses (like CC NC/ND), so we can leave them without templates. However, with fair use in particular, the rationale is highly desired elsewhere, many people (especially newcomers) think it’s a catch-all to get out of copyright law, and there have been several discussions here about allowing it. Given all of this, I think it’s valuable to have a fair-use template that specifically says that it isn’t allowed. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
:::: i am not confused. the EDP / fair use proposal, was for copyrighted images in public domain works. this is a better, more forthright policy than the current "some images in a document are de minimus", which is a novel theory on commons. but clearly the consensus is to delete any mention of alternative work-arounds of the "sum of '''all''' knowledge". consensus can change. meanwhile, it prevents work on many public domain documents that include copyrighted material. i have plenty of work to do, i leave you to your "live free or die" politics. --[[User:Slowking4|Slowking4]] ‽ <span style="font-family:UnifrakturMaguntia">[[User_talk:Slowking4|''digitaleffie's ghost'']]</span> 21:54, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:18, 12 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Travels of Marco Polo]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; recreated as redirect to the correct title (scans exist). --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:57, 13 August 2023 (UTC)|text=
#Incomplete second-hand transcription from Gutenberg
#More or less abandoned (although [[User:Egm4313.s12]] has added Prologue recently)
#Gutenberg does not seem to be too faithful to the original, see [[Talk:The Travels of Marco Polo#THE TITLE IS WRONG]].
#Our version does not seem to be too faithful to the Gutenberg either, omiting images, various front matter texts etc.
As a result it looks much better to start a new (scanbacked) transcription from scratch. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 17:15, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' The work is almost entirely complete; there is no marker that it is incomplete, and the main text is completed, so people would not likely be inclined to complete work. The PG title is taken from a reprint, where this it the title. Your fourth objection is also to completeness. A scan would be nice, but is not necessary. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:42, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
::"A scan would be nice, but is not necessary." Where ''do'' you get that idea from? A scan is something that needs to be found at some time and then the text gradually replaced with the proofread transcluded text. Hosting the scans for all our works that are not digitally native is something that is a long-term requirement—not some mere lofty aspiration. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 01:08, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
::*[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]]: It’s “not some mere lofty aspiration”? What are ''you'' talking about!? By [https://phetools.toolforge.org/graphs/Wikisource_-_texts_en.svg here], I see some 200,000 texts needing scan-backing—a number which has remained almost unchanged since 2012. A scan is not a requirement, for ''any'' text, in ''any'' circumstance; and this is especially true where, as here, text may be taken easily from PG to complete the work. In any case, a scan-backing here would just be a match-and-split from the text already here, as it is of sufficient quality. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
::: Using match-and-split on a copy-pasted PG text is against long established policy (see [[Help:Match and split#When not to use this tool]]), so that would not be an option. I'm well aware that we have over 200,000 mainspace pages that need scan-backing (not "texts" as this total includes subpages). The majority were placed here before side-by-side proofreading was implemented, and a large portion of it was botted in with minimal wikification. Some of the other WS language domains do require that new additions are scan-backed and our French counterparts have done excellent work in getting to 99% scan-backed. This was achieved through a collective effort and a change in policy to not accept new scan-free texts. Each time a similar change in policy here has been raised, it has been knocked back. The result is that as soon as we get some older texts scan-backed, another set of scan-free turn up. It is acknowledged that it is more "exciting" to work on new texts. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 05:39, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
:::*“Each time a similar change in policy here has been raised, it has been knocked back.” So it’s not “a long-term requirement”—you just want it to be, correct? The only times I’ve seen this “policy” “enforced” recently is to harass newcomers, so I object to those actions as well. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:35, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
:::*:It is not a long-term requirement that all newly added works have to be scanbacked, although it seems high time to start requiring it compulsorily, and some of the many reasons for that were given above. However, it is a long-term requirement that copypastes from Gutenberg are not accepted any more, which makes completion of this work impossible. I also agree that adding new works is much more attractive to contributors than repairing bad quality work of others. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:59, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} I think it's way harder to untangle a mess than start from scratch. I also don't support keeping texts that are clearly inaccurate. [[User:Languageseeker|Languageseeker]] ([[User talk:Languageseeker|talk]]) 03:27, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
:{{comment}} A good solution to me is that we get scans, make it a project for a month, and we replace it. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom and Languageseeker. This needs to be started from scratch based on a scan. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:48, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} This is a complicated mess.  Best to start over from scratch. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:57, 27 June 2023 (UTC)
:* Will these scans work?  Someone should check them for quality, but a quick look suggests they will work. Vol. I: {{ext scan link|https://archive.org/details/bookofsermarcopo01polo}}; Vol. II: {{ext scan link|https://archive.org/details/bookofsermarcopo02polo}} --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:19, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}}, just that it's a second-hand transcription is enough for me to say delete. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 19:37, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
: {{comment}} A set of scans now exists: {{small scan link|The Book of Ser Marco Polo, the Venetian, concerning the kingdoms and marvels of the East (3rd ed) Vol 1.djvu|The Book of Ser Marco Polo, the Venetian, concerning the kingdoms and marvels of the East (3rd ed) Vol 2.djvu|Ser Marco Polo - notes and addenda.djvu|name1=Vol. I|name2=Vol. II|name3=Notes and addenda}}  These Index pages are linked from both the Author and Translator. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:08, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:57, 13 August 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:The complete works of Count Tolstoy (IA completeworksofc08tols).pdf]] ==
{{closed|1=Speedied as redundant per nom. ---[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:19, 16 September 2023 (UTC)|text=
This is a .pdf version with some pages missing of a text which is also at [[Index:Complete Works of Count Tolstoy - 08.djvu]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 09:23, 16 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:19, 16 September 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:Category:The Smith and the Devil]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. Versions page exists. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:52, 23 September 2023 (UTC)|text=
A category for a work ({{w|The Smith and the Devil}}), with what seem to be different translations/versions of that work in the category. These should be transferred to a versions page, if I'm reading into the situation correctly. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 10:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
: Created and populated by [[User:Yitzilitt|Yitzilitt]], as their only edits to the site. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 10:23, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} I've created a versions page at [[The Smith and the Devil]]. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 06:51, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:52, 23 September 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:Previous-roman-numeral]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:00, 23 September 2023 (UTC)|text=
Unused template, and I don't really see a use case for it. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 06:55, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:00, 23 September 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[John James Audubon]] ==
{{closed|1=Redirected, subpages speedied. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)|text=
Full scan-backed version has been available since ~2011–2012, at [[John James Audubon (Burroughs)]], and this version is just a poorer-quality, less comprehensive, scanless copy of the same version. This should be deleted to make way for a disambiguation page. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 10:49, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
:Changed into redirect, subpages speedied per [[Wikisource:Deletion policy#G4]]: …  An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Unsourced Grimm's Tales ==

{{closed|1=Speedied. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:34, 28 September 2023 (UTC)|text=Now that we have proofread multiple versions of these tales, I suggest we cull the unsourced versions. They lack proper sourcing which makes the alternate names confusing as it is unclear which alternate edition they came from. A first set of 5 that are duplicative of scanned versions are below:
* [[King Grisly-beard]], duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales (Edwardes)/King Grizzle-Beard]]
* [[Iron Hans (unsourced)]], duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 2/Iron John]]
* [[The Dog and the Sparrow (unsourced)]], duplicative of [[Grimm's Goblins (1876)/The Dog and the Sparrow]]
* [[The Old Man and His Grandson (unsourced)]], duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Old Man and his Grandson]]
* [[Fundevogel (unsourced)]], duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/Fundevogel]]
[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:15, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:Speedied per [[Wikisource:Deletion policy#G4]]: …  An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:33, 28 September 2023 (UTC)}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:34, 28 September 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Tess of the d'Urbervilles (unsourced)]] ==

{{closed|1=Speedied. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)|text=This version duplicates [[Tess of the D'Urbervilles (1891)]] which has now been proofread in its entirety. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 20:15, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:Speedied per [[Wikisource:Deletion policy#G4]]: …  An unsourced work that is redundant to a sourced (scanned) version. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:54, 28 September 2023 (UTC)}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:24, 28 September 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Two Angry Women of Abington]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; now scan-backed. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
Open an edit window to see the horror firsthand.  This is an HTML mess tagged for cleanup in 2008.  In the intervening 15 years, no cleanup has been attempted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:44, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*While the HTML is nightmarish, I don’t really see any problem, as the actual displayed text is quite readable. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 18:57, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*: Really?  You see no problem with trying to verify / proofread a text that looks like this throughout?:
*::<nowiki>Passing well-done of her, she is a kind wench.<BR>I thank ye, Mistress Goursey, for my husband;<BR>And if it hap your husband come our way<BR>A-hunting or such ordinary sports,<BR>I'll do as much for yours as you for mine.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Gour''. Pray do, forsooth.&mdash;God's Lord, what means the woman?<BR>She speaks it scornfully: faith, I care not;<BR>Things are well-spoken, if they be well-taken. [''Aside''.<BR>What, Mistress Barnes, is it not time to part?<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mis. Bar''. What's a-clock, sirrah?<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Nich''. 'Tis but new-struck one.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Gour''. I have some business in the town by three.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Bar''. Till then let's walk into the orchard, sir.<BR>What, can you play at tables?<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Gour''. Yes, I can.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Bar''. What, shall we have a game?<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Gour''. And if you please.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Bar''. I'faith, content; we'll spend an hour so. Sirrah, fetch the<BR>tables.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Nich''. I will, sir. [''Exit.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Phil''. Sirrah Frank, whilst they are playing here,<BR>We'll to the green to bowls.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Fran''. Philip, content, Coomes, come hither, sirrah:<BR>When our fathers part, call us upon the green.<BR>Philip, come, a rubber, and so leave.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Phil''. Come on. [''Exeunt'' PHILIP ''and'' FRANCIS.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Coomes''. 'Sblood, I do not like the humour of these springals; they'll<BR>spend all their father's good at gaming. But let them trowl the bowls upon the<BR>green. I'll trowl the bowls in the buttery by the leave of God and Master<BR>Barnes: an his men be good fellows, so it is; if they be not, let them go snick<BR>up. [''Exit.<BR><BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Enter'' NICHOLAS ''with the tables.<BR><BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;Mast. Bar''. So, set them down.<BR>Mistress Goursey, how do you like this game?<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mis. Gour''. Well, sir.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Bar''. Can ye play at it?<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mis. Gour''. A little, sir.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Bar''. Faith, so can my wife.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mis. Gour''. Why, then, Master Barnes, and if you please,<BR>Our wives shall try the quarrel 'twixt us two,<BR>And we'll look on.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mast. Bar''. I am content. What, woman, will you play?<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mis. Gour''. I care not greatly.<BR> &amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;''Mis. Bar''. Nor</nowiki>
*: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:07, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I meant from the side of a reader (out-of-window), not an editor (in-window). In any case, I think that it would be fairly easy to run find-and-replace on the text to fix it up. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:11, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*: As I stated, this was tagged for cleanup 15 years ago.  Since nothing has been done in those 15 years, an argument that "It could be done" no longer applies. Clearly no one is willing to tackle this. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:13, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*How does it look? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:49, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*:Much improved! --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:09, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

: https://archive.org/search?query=creator%3A%22Porter%2C+Henry%2C+fl.+1599%22&and%5B%5D=lending%3A%22is_readable%22  At least 4 scans at IA, including a 1911 published facsimile of a 16th century printing. :)  Choose one and this could be scan backed :) [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 07:50, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
:: If you're volunteering to get that started, that would be great!  The cleanest (best) scan is [https://archive.org/details/twoangrywomenofa01portuoft this one] which also has some comparative front matter. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:07, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
:::I can't work with the edition you mention, it is still in copyright in the UK ( see [[w:W._W._Greg|W. W. Greg]] for the dates. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
:::However the 1911 editions seem to be edited by [[Author:John Stephen Farmer]], an author we already have on English Wikisource. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:07, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
:::: Most of the text in the scan I recommended is a facsimile reprint, but much cleaner than the other scans.  Presumably, you'd be able to work with that portion?  There would only be the notes by the editor and comparative list of questionable readings that would be at issue? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:02, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::The concern was indeed "new material", but it was also to do with potential editorial corrections. [[User:ShakespeareFan00|ShakespeareFan00]] ([[User talk:ShakespeareFan00|talk]]) 08:38, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::: See page viii which discusses errors in the original.  Based on what is stated there, and a look at the original text, there would be no advantage to accurately reproducing a text filled with mistakes of all sorts.  If we can't work from an edited text, then I'd just as soon see the work deleted.  It's not worth Wikisource's time to put a huge effort into accurately reproducing an error-ridden text. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:37, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:08, 17 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Michigan v. EPA]]==
{{closed|1=Deleted; an unformatted copy-paste. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:38, 18 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
Just the text layer, especially problematic as this file should be in multiple sections (for all of the opinions). The PDF is of the slip opinion, which should be replaced with the bound volume anyway. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 14:13, 20 August 2023 (UTC)
:Not out of scope as a work, though it is the ugly copy and paste that we try to avoid. We have deleted works such as these in this state previously, so can see that we can do that here. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 04:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:38, 18 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

==Monthly Challenge==
{{closed|1=Kept; misplaced discussion, with no rationale for deletion from Wikisource given. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:32, 18 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
I propose to remove [[Index:The_Fortunes_of_Perkin_Warbeck_-_1830_-_Volume_1.djvu]] from the Monthly challenge. The 1857 edition exists
already in [[Index:The_fortunes_of_Perkin_Warbeck.djvu]] and it would be a waste of effort to spent time on another version of the text. I do not object to the DJVU or its transcription project... - [[User:R. J. Mathar|R. J. Mathar]] ([[User talk:R. J. Mathar|talk]])
:{{ping|R. J. Mathar}} removing it from the monthly challenge is a smaller discussion from that challenge, not a deletion discussion here. I would almost suggest removing it and noting that on the talk page, then taking the conversation from there. I would agree that the challenges are not normally the place to replicate additional editions of works. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 01:11, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:32, 18 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:Eclogues (Mackail 1915).djvu]]==
{{closed|1=Kept; not a redundant edition but different from our existing one. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
The file is missing some pages, and the main content can be found [[Index:Eclogues and Georgics (Mackail 1910).djvu|here]], already proofread and transcluded. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:22, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
: {{vk}} It is missing some pages, and therefore needs repair.  But why delete it?  It is not the same edition as the 1910 printing.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:50, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: It is the same edition, just a later printing. The only difference is the title page, and I don’t think we need a whole separate transcription project for a different title page. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:02, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
:*: What makes you think it is not a "new edition" as stated on the title page?  Page v says "In this re-issue, the translation has been modified. . .", so it is '''not''' the same edition.  The text of the translation is different. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:42, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:34, 18 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Book of Meqabyan III]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; apparently a Wikisource-original translation.  No source text and abandoned with only one chapter of progress --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:41, 18 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
Abandoned work, that has no provenance, source or licence for the original nor the translation. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:32, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
*The ''Ethiopian Maccabees'' are very obscure. The first book was translated into the English in 2018, and a translation of the second book came out this year. No translation of the third book into the English has been published. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:47, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:41, 18 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Department of Commerce v. New York]]==
{{closed|1=Deleted; unformatted and incomplete. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
Only the syllabus; the actual opinions are missing. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:23, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} Is there a reason the opinions can't be added? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:27, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:28, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:46, 19 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:Category:Barack Obama articles by quality]] and subcategories ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; author-based categories are against policy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
These categories are a product of another time (late 2000s), and are a sprawling from [[WS:WikiProject Barack Obama]], a project which has been inactive for over 10 years. All these categories use the word "articles" to refer to what are actually "works". From the terminology used (especially "articles"), and the style of these templates and the way things are added to them, it's clear that it is replicating Wikipedia's style, which is something we really should have always been avoiding. This trend of replicating Wikipedia was more common on Wikisource in the late 2000s, when it was a smaller project than it is today (and for good reason I'd argue).

The Obama categories also implicitly rely on the ''old'' method of determining text integrity status (the "block method"), which is rarely used anymore; we prefer scan-backing now...

I don't know that I have any ''really'' strong arguments for the categories' deletion, but they seem very inappropriate to the project in the modern context, redundant, and unnecessary. [[:Category:Text integrity]] ''only'' lists ''this individual'' topic-specific text integrity tracking category, and no others. All the Obama categories also (as of the time of writing) have had 0 page views in the last 30 days, so clearly aren't serving anyone anyway. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 18:48, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} Agreed. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 06:40, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:12, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:56, 19 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:The Odyssey of Homer (Buckley).djvu]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; redundant. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:07, 20 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
This index is a later reprint of the 1853 edition of the work, which is largely transcribed at [[Index:The Odyssey of Homer, with the Hymns, Epigrams, and Battle of the Frogs and Mice (Buckley 1853).djvu]]. As the person who has done most of the (limited) transcription of [[Index:The Odyssey of Homer (Buckley).djvu]], I have no problem with it being deleted. The limited links to the index have been diverted to the 1853 version. <span class="autosigned" style="font-size:smaller;">—''[[w:Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment by'' [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) .</span><!-- {{unsigned}}-->
:{{vd}} There are only very minor differences in the front matter and also different advertisements (which nobody transcribes anyway) and so it can be deleted as abandoned if nobody wishes to keep proofreading it. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:57, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:07, 20 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Translation:Shulchan Aruch/Yoreh Deah/400]] and [[Translation:Shulchan Aruch/Yoreh Deah/403]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; copypasted from dubious external source. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)|text=
These chapters were newly added to [[Translation:Shulchan Aruch]], but they do not seem to be the original Wikisource translation, they seem to have been copypasted from an [https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh%2C_Yoreh_De'ah.403.1?ven=Wikisource_Shulchan_Aruch_-_English&lang=bi&with=Translations&lang2=en external source]. Here the translation was published under CC-BY, so I was considering moving these chapters to the main namespace and creating a new version of the work. However, it seems that the translation of the work published at  https://www.sefaria.org/Shulchan_Arukh,_Yoreh_De'ah?tab=contents is a compilation with each chapter being added from a different source (including Wikisource) and for this reason not elligible to be hosted here.

BTW: Another newly added chapter is [[Translation:Shulchan Aruch/Yoreh Deah/222]], which has been copypasted from https://www.dafyomi.co.il/nedarim/halachah/nd-hl-088.htm, where no licence seems to be given and so this one should probably be deleted for copyright reasons. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:30, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

:+ one more: [[Translation:Shulchan Aruch/Yoreh Deah/68]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:05, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:51, 22 October 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Incomplete work files in [[Special:PrefixIndex/Wikisource:WikiProject Open Access/]] ==
{{closed/s|Deleted. [[Wikisource:WikiProject Open Access/Programmatic import from PubMed Central]] has been updated to explain the situation and to list the deleted pages so that they are easy to undelete if anyone wants to perform archeology there. Note that the pages should ''not'' be restored in place to live on in the state they are currently in; only to be extracted elsewhere (email/offsite), or as the starting point for concrete planned improvement efforts. For a continuation of the OA project as such, the pages should be regenerated by recitation-bot or its successor rather than undeleted.}}
Back when the Open Access movement was young and hopeful, [[Wikisource:WikiProject Open Access|WikiProject Open Access]] tried to use {{ul2|Recitation-bot}} to automatically import loads of Open Access scientific articles automatically. The plan was not uncontroversial (support/oppose were about evenly split in the discussion at the time) and succeeded about as well as any such bulk-import-by-bot projects (i.e. not at all well). The result is a metric crapton of incompletely imported working drafts that keep showing up in mainspace categories, triggering citation errors, template errors, broken image tracking categories, syntax errors, etc. Over the years I've tried attacking the problem by manually fixing each issue as they come up, but like most such zombie swarms they keep finding new ways to be an annoyance. In their current state they are not useful as even drafts for referencing (they are broken in significant ways), and there is absolutely no prospects of them ever getting fixed up. The majority of them are probably compatibly licensed, but as they have no license templates and were not evaluated individually (they made lots of assumptions about licensing status) we can't rule out that some subsets of articles or illustrations have incompatible licensing.

The affected pages are ~258 subpages and ~221 redirects under: [[Special:PrefixIndex/Wikisource:WikiProject_Open_Access/]]:

I am proposing that we just delete these now. It's been nearly a decade without activity, and no signs anyone is picking up the ball. And since these were programatically generated they can be programatically ''re''generated with no loss of data if the project becomes active again (but then, hopefully, with better quality). Alternately, if anyone ''really'' can't stand to see them deleted, we could just blank the pages and replace the contents with a message explaining how to restore the contents from revision history. It's be easier and cleaner to delete them, but blanking would solve most of the problems with them. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 14:05, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Just like technically problematic pages in the User: space, these pages aren’t harming anyone. There’s no real need for work on them, in my opinion. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:22, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
*:{{comment}} It's harder to exclude these pages from tracking categories and similar than userspace pages, which can be handled by simply excluding the whole namespace. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 04:25, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
*::Indeed. In general, arguing that one can just filter it out is about as convincing as arguing that you can just walk around the pile of poo on the sidewalk: it is strictly speaking true, but does not really address the issue at hand. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:36, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} hesitantly. There has been time to fix them, and we have asked. Their history I forget. If excluding them from WS: ns is the issue, unlike excluding them from User:, I would be comfortable moving them all to subpages of the bot account. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:18, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} This is an abandoned project with no progress to make the dumps usable. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:31, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:25, 15 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Additional pages at [[Index:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853).djvu]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; duplicate pages. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:33, 15 November 2023 (UTC)|text=
There are a number of images appended to this index (rotated versions of page images within the work), which the transcriber used as a means of transcribing the respective pages. The pages in the work itself are proofread and the content is the same as the 'extras'. Therefore, the duplicate pages may be safely deleted. These are:<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 73.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 74.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 75.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 76.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 77.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 101.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 111.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 112.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 113.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 114.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 178.jpg<br/>
Page:Notes on the State of Virginia (1853) p. 183*.jpg<br/> [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 10:09, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:33, 15 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Doctrines to be Rejected]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted as nonstandard regional copy without source.  Now a redirect. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:38, 15 November 2023 (UTC)|text=
This page is a redundant, corrupted copy of the historically accurate page [[Doctrines to be Rejected in the Birmingham Amended Statement of Faith]]. According to the notes on the page proposed for deletion, the page was copied to Wikisource in 2007 from [https://web.archive.org/web/20030719004834/http://christadelphia.org:80/reject.htm a website maintained by a single Christadelphian community member] (see the footer of the page) rather than a more authoritative source like [https://thechristadelphian.com The Christadelphian Office]. The page as it was originally copied to Wikisource is now only available via Wayback Machine and was already corrupted in [https://web.archive.org/web/20030408015940/http://christadelphia.org/reject.htm its earliest recorded version] (the phrase "Fellowship cannot be extended to anyone who holds, teaches, fellowships or countenances any of the doctrinal heresies referred to below" is not present in the original version and item 35 of the original has been substantially rewritten into two different items, 35 and 36,), and you can see further corruption take place on item 22 between the two versions linked to above, proving that the maintainer of this site was at least the source of some of the corruption that's now present on Wikisource in the page proposed for deletion. {{unsigned| 08:29, 5 September 2023‎ (UTC)|TsuyoiHato}}

:I've got more information on this one! A researcher friend was able to track down a 1924 reference to the "Fellowship cannot be extended" amendment and also the restructuring of point 35: In 1924, a piece of correspondence published in [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berean_Christadelphians The Berean Christadelphian] (which had only started publishing a year prior) captures that this was a local amendment voted on for adoption in an ecclesia in Los Angeles, California. It's not part of the standard document or part of any standard version of the document that I'm aware of. I think the page is good to be deleted, but if not, it should be properly titled to indicate that these positions were not standard, mainstream Christadelphian beliefs. (I tried to add a link to an image of the correspondence, but it's getting flagged by the same filter. You can see the image at `imgur .com/a/Oal91W0`.) [[User:TsuyoiHato|TsuyoiHato]] ([[User talk:TsuyoiHato|talk]]) 20:34, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:38, 15 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Hans Brinker, or The Silver Skates/A Letter from Holland]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; not present in our scan and no source was provided to back the letter.  It can certainly be recreated if someone finds a source, though it would need to exist in a new location. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:11, 15 November 2023 (UTC)|text=
The work 'Hans Brinker, or The Silver Skates' is being migrated from an unsourced version to a scan backed one. This letter is not present in the scan backed version and so needs to be deleted. -- <span class="autosigned" style="font-size:smaller;">—''[[w:Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment by'' [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 00:55, 27 October 2023.</span><!-- {{unsigned}}-->

:The letter is dated 1873 and reflects her first visit to Holland, several years after she wrote the book. This shows that the unsourced version was a different edition. The ideal would be to find a scanned version that includes the letter, but I would have thought it better to keep this letter until then.  <span class="autosigned" style="font-size:smaller;">—''[[w:Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment by'' [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:02, 29 October 2023.</span><!-- {{unsigned}}-->

: It's clear from a quick search that the letter appears in the front of many PD copies of the book, so we shouldn't delete it just because we transcribed a different edition.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:19, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:11, 15 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Translation:Mishneh Torah]] ==
{{closed|1=Deleted; long-abandoned incomplete Wikisource translation without a scan-backing copy in the original language. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)|text=
Abandoned translation nominated per [[Wikisource:Translations#Wikisource original translations]]: "Works that are incomplete and abandoned for long periods may be nominated for deletion." Besides, the contributor seems to have tried to produce his own illustrated edition instead of bare translation. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:28, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} No, the contributor was not producing their own illustrated edition, but was working from the copy at he.WS, which has the same illustrations to represent each of the "books" with an icon for the link.  I cannot read Hebrew, so I do not know whether the he.WS copy comes from a verifiable source.  I suspect not, unless it is from a very recent public domain digital edition.  The he.WS page has a lengthy Talk page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 06:09, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I see. Though still not convinced about the illustrations, my main argument of the deletion proposal is different: abandoned translation. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:: If the translation were based on a stable scan in the original language, it could be kept.  In this case, however, I don't see evidence of that at he.WS, which means there is no stable starting point from which future contributors could resume the translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:02, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:27, 15 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Ten Days in a Mad-House]] ==
{{closed|1=Kept; backing scan found and connected to copy. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)|text=
Incomplete work, and not backed by scan. No source, so no ready ability to complete it and nothing has been done to the work in ten years. The work itself would not be considered out of scope, and it does have a link through to Wikipedia article. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 06:08, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} The work was abandoned shortly after it was started in 2011. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:56, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} If someone generates a DjVu from [https://archive.org/details/3304680.med.yale.edu this scan at IA], we can save this historically important work.  I looked for a scan some time back but could not find one.  It would make a good candidate for the MC as well. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I will upload a djvu file soon. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 16:53, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*::[[:File:Ten Days in a Mad-House (1887).djvu]] [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 17:04, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
*::: Thanks. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:00, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:57, 12 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:R. G. Anand vs. Delux Films.djvu]]==
{{closed/s|No objections in two months, so delete per proposal.}}
This is not a scan of the original, but a copy of an OCR transcription of the original (as exhibited by the page numbers, in-text footnotes, and obvious mistakes (like “arc” for “are”) that would only be made by a program), making this not ideal for work. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:34, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

:I don't know what the judis.nic.in website is, but if you go via the India Supreme Court website https://main.sci.gov.in/judgments it gives a link to chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://main.sci.gov.in/jonew/judis/5032.pdf which seems to be the same version. So although not ideal, I suspect that it will be difficult to find a better version. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 09:51, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:The life of and character of Marcus Portius Cato Uticensis - collected from the best ancient Greek and Latin authors; and designed for the readers of Cato, a tragedy (IA lifeofcharactero00theo).pdf]] ==
{{closed/s|contributor request}}
The PDF file is causing problems. I will create a DJVU version, upload to Commons and create a new index page. Please delete, since no work has been done on this book. Regards, [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 11:02, 23 October 2023 (UTC)}}
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Wright]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted.  Full rationale explained at end of discussion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:12, 19 November 2023 (UTC)}}
I am not certain of the value in having surname-based disambiguation pages in author: ns. They duplicate what is done elsewhere and are going to be a beast to maintain, and if we linking on pages in either author or main namespace they should never be to a surname alone. As such a page like this is not so much a disambiguation page, and more a finding aid and duplicating the maintained pages in [[WS:Authors-W#Wr]] — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 05:16, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} for any surname disambig page, but commenting that surname-based redirects exist, such as [[Author:Shakespeare]] and [[Author:Hawthorne]], which may also want to be considered. But the disambiguation page "Author:Wright" does not share the same value as those surname redirects to, since so many times when "Shakespeare" or "Hawthorne" are referred to in a work, we know who they're talking about. And it's easier to write [[Author:Shakespeare]] than the full name (especially as it exists now). But [[Author:Wright]] should never be linked to...so, it really serves very little purpose that a special page can't serve. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 05:21, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
:: I was talking disambigs as they are listing, not redirects. Separate conversation that I am not raising. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 07:10, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
::: FWIW 731 author pages disambiguations. The single first names are tolerable, some others less so. See [[petscan:25586458]] — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 07:13, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Did a partial trawl through these and I see

* [[Author:Emerson]]
* [[Author:Dickens]]
* [[Author:Tolstoy]]
* [[Author:Austen]]
* [[Author:Churchill]]
* [[Author:Roosevelt]]
* [[Author:Obama]]
* [[Author:Dickinson]]
* [[Author:Einstein]]
* [[Author:Huxley]]
* [[Author:Linnæus]]
* [[Author:Hazlitt]]
* [[Author:Sumner]]
* [[Author:Shelley]]
* [[Author:Burns]]
* [[Author:Gauss]]
* [[Author:Neruda]]
* [[Author:Fisher]]
* [[Author:Fischer]]
* [[Author:Kvapil]]
* [[Author:Fairchild]]
* [[Author:Mourek]]
* [[Author:Svoboda]]
* [[Author:Mayer]]
* [[Author:Šrámek]]
* [[Author:Pichon]]
* [[Author:Villani]]
* [[Author:Scheiner]]
* [[Author:Staněk]]
* [[Author:Brož]]
* [[Author:Hilbert]]
and there are more.  I see that [[user:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]] has been creating these, more recently.

I will further proffer that in looking at some of the WhatLinksHere, some of these pages are problematic as people link to the disambig pages, presumably unwittingly, where it is a well-known dominant author, and that is an issue for us.  Some of the surname pages, look to be more what we would have as Portal: ns pages, and more relate to the surname pages that exist at the wikipedias. [A reminder that disambiguation pages are not meant to be finding pages, they are used as a process of resolving conflicts in article titles that occur when a single term can be associated with more than one topic.] — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 22:56, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
:{{vk}}. I consider them quite useful in cases when one remembers just the surname of an author. As for the maintenance, I can imagine that one day somebody will find a way how to keep the pages automatically, as they require only listing of a few pieces of information about authors who have their author pages in WS: name, birth and death dates, and description, all of which can be taken from WD. To me they look slightly more appropriate to the author NS than to the portal NS. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:38, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Jan.Kamenicek}} I could imagine a situation where these types of author disambiguation pages would be useful, if they could be ''fully'' autogenerated (not just by bots, but the software). But in the current state, no. A great idea, but convincing anyone to want anymore WD integration whatsoever seems like an impossible feat. So I wouldn't count on this idea getting any support until the 2040s, meaning these surname disambig pages are better off just deleted now. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 10:48, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
:::I still think that current manually maintained pages are better than nothing, and their existence may prompt somebody to automatize them. If we delete them all, nobody will ever think about their automatization. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:07, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' all, as a general matter. A few of these might be worth deleting, but I don’t think they are all collectively incorrect. If just a last name is cited, it is useful to have these for ease of reference. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:04, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

* {{ping|TE(æ)A,ea.|Jan.Kamenicek}} They are wrong, and being linked to and left.  It is simply wrong to be linking to a disambiguation page and they should meet red links, so that they know that it is incorrect.  They are not being used as disambiguation pages, you are using them as some sort of link catcher which is out of scope. What are you automating? What are you trying to create? If it is topic or subject pages, they are not in the author: ns, they all currently sit in Wikisource: ns.  — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 12:44, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
*:I agree it is wrong to link to them, but they are useful to readers (myself included) who search for an author and remember just the surname. If possible (which I do not know if it is), contributors can be prevented from linking them from the main NS, but imo it would be a loss to delete them. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:02, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}}. There is a need for good tools to help identify partial or alternate author identities—I spend enough time trawling the name-based dab pages on enWP and on querying Wikidata to feel this need quite keenly—but manual Author:-namespace dab pages ain't that tool (it'll just be one more incomplete, unmaintained, and unmaintainable place to dump stuff). It also violates the principle of the redlink: red links encourage contributors to add the missing content (or update the link), but artificially blue'ed links discourage it. All Author:-namespace dabs for partial or alternate names should be deleted (redirects and dabs for actually ambiguous names should of course be kept).{{pbr}}But we should give some thought to how we can serve the very real need better: going from a partial or ambiguous name mentioned in a text to determining the actual identity and linking it should be much much easier when information about that person actually exists in the Wikimedia-verse (has a wp article, exists in Wikidata, has a Creator: template on Commons, an Author: page here, etc.). --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:42, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
* I am closing this as {{vd}}, but because the issue is contested, I'm going to first explain my reasoning.  I have been thinking through the issue for several weeks before settling on my choice against keeping the surname-disambiguation pages.  Those who voted in favor have stated such pages can be useful.  While utility is a good thing, it's not enough to warrant the establishment of a new set of disambiguation pages on Wikisource.  And as this was the ''only'' reason given for keeping them, their status is supported by a very weak rationale.  However, there are multiple reasons why they are ''less'' than useful or are '''not''' a good idea:
*# We already have [[Wikisource:Authors]], an alphabetical index of author pages present on Wikisource.  The new disambiguation pages duplicate a function we already have in place.  The authors index is also already linked from within the Authors: namespace.  If the Author page you land on is not the one you were looking for, there is a link on the left side of the header that takes you to the correct place in the index to find what you were actually looking for.  Duplicating the function of the Authors index in a second namespace with manually updated pages is an additional expenditure without additional benefit.  This point was the single largest factor in my decision, and any counter-argument lamenting that the author index pages are incomplete would condemn the Author: namespace disambiguation by surname pages just as much.  Dividing effort between two namespaces to maintain the same lists of links manually does not make sense, and the Authors index is the older, more complete, better organized, and better linked option.
*# Several of these disambiguation pages turn red links blue in ways they should not.  The links to [[Author:Emerson]] were originally redirected to [[Author:Ralph Waldo Emerson]], but when the redirect was converted to a disambiguation page in 2013, the incoming links were not corrected.  Typically, a reference to an author in the English-language works we host refer to a specific author, and the target should be ''that'' author, either directly or via redirection, and not a disambiguation page.
*# The search function on Wikisource allows users to type in "Author:Neruda" and limit search by namespace.  There is no need to manually replicate the search function in a set of static pages.
*# But having these pages ''interferes'' with that search function in the Author namespace, and users looking for a particular Author ''not'' listed on the disambiguation page may assume there is no listing for that Author.
*# If a search does not return the sought-for result, Wikipedia has surname-based pages, and these pages will also list authors who do not yet have an Author page here.  Such pages exist across multiple language Wikipedias.
*# Wikidata is also searchable. I have used it on multiple occasions to find authors.
*# If there is a special group of authors regularly encountered, users can post a list to their own User: space, or append a list of those authors to a suitable Portal:
*# Some of the surname-disambiguation pages duplicate the function of a proper disambiguation page.  For example, [[Author:Dickens]] should be [[Author:Charles Dickens]] since both listed individuals have the same first name.  The same is true of [[Author:Linnæus]] (both are Carls) and [[Author:Hazlitt]] (all three are Williams).  These pages should be moved to a full name disambiguation page. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:50, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:RunningHeader-centered]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:20, 19 November 2023 (UTC)}}
This template is unused and redundant to {{tl|RunningHeader}} plus index CSS, and having it creates an undesirable maintenance burden. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 20:54, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
: {{comment}} This template has multiple links and transclusions.  Until all of those links are take care of, it would be premature to delete this template. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:15, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::The only transclusions I see at [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:RunningHeader-centered]] are to subpages of the template, and the other links are likewise from subpages of the template, or from discussion pages. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 22:31, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
:::Indeed. All incoming links are to discussions of the template (i.e. this page), and the only transclusions are self-references on the template's own doc page. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:29, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. No longer in use. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:Category:Songs by James Scott]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted; works in the category also deleted since gallery pages are not within the scope of Wikisource.}}
Categorization by author is no longer in line with our current standards. These works need to be listed on the author page, [[Author:James Scott (1885-1938)]], not in a category. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 21:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
: This can be speedied if someone removes the Category from all the pages that have it. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:31, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
::Category deleted, for the list of works discussed below see [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jan.Kamenicek/Sandbox&oldid=13473972 here]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:46, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
===[https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jan.Kamenicek/Sandbox&oldid=13473972 Works]===
* {{comment}} Has anyone else here looked at the "works" in this category?  They are simply images, with no transcription of lyrics or the sheet music.  None of the works in the category that I saw merit inclusion because they contain no text transcriptions at all.  The page content is better suited to Commons, as they are simply images.  If these pages '''are''' deleted, the corresponding data items will also need to be deleted, unless the images and content are first transferred to the Wikidata items. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:21, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
:: I'd disagree very heavily with deleting the works on the basis that they don't contain text, because they can be made into music sheets with our plugin, which can be considered legitimate and useful data that can be parsed textually. But, in their current form, they are literally just pictures of the scans, so {{abstain}} on my judgment for the transcriptions themselves. Hopefully someone will one day put in the work to make the transcriptions hold up by modern standards (adding sheet music and possibly the small amount of text provided), and I '''in no way''' oppose their existence ''in the case of a modern transcription effort'', just that their current ''presentation'' isn't too much more useful than a Commons category. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 03:56, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
::: My point isn't that they contain no text, but that they contain '''no transcriptions'''.  They are merely galleries of images.  If they had music transcriptions, that would be fine.  If they were picture books with transcluded images matched from an Index of the pages, that would be fine.  But presently, these are <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> pages, which make them Commons content, not Wikisource. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:29, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} the works as well, per EncycloPetey. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:48, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' for now, I feel like the change in discussion focus is a bit much. To my knowledge, this was a standard process for early music transcription. I would be happy to actually transcribe the music, but with one question: is there a good system for cross-page transclusion of music? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:19, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
*:@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]]: By "cross-page" do you mean sheet music that spans multiple pages in the source scan? In any case, I'm useless when it comes to LilyPond issues, but my go-to for questions about it is [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]]. There is also a help page at [[Help:LilyPond]] but I can't tell whether it's up to date or whether it addresses your question. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 05:50, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
::: There are three ways of dealing with scores that go across page breaks. a) Do the score in the Mainspace and don't put anything in the Page: space (''e.g.'' [[Essentials in Conducting/Appendix B]]—for this one I worked on it offline in Frescobaldi and uploaded the sound file to Commons); b) Put the whole score onto one of the pages in the Page: space and leave comments on the other pages indicating what has been done (''e.g.'' [[Page:Fugue by Ebenezer Prout.djvu/235]]); c) Set each page of a score separately with various overrides on each page to set the bar number and hide time signature etc. (''e.g.'' [[Cox and Box (complete)/Rataplan]]). This last is the least desirable option from a transclusion perspective as some pages of a printed score don't fit neatly on to a single Lilypond page and we end up with page-end scraps. This makes e-Book versions very difficult to download and use. Sound files also have to managed separately as otherwise they end up split per page as well.{{pbr}}All that said, I do not recommend setting these scores here on enWS as they do not form a part of a larger text. Most of them are already available in pdf format in [https://imslp.org/wiki/Category:Scott%2C_James IMSLP]. Those that aren't should be uploaded there. If someone wants to re-typeset them, then any of IMSLP, Mutopia, or MuseScore are the best hosting venues. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 08:52, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
:::*[[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]]: I thought as much. I’m not skilled enough to do (3), and I think (1) defeats the purpose, so I’ll work with (2). [[User:Xover|Xover]]: Not in this case, but in cases where the scores include lyrics, it might be useful to have a separate, “annotated” page that just has the lyrics. These take a while, so it’ll be easier to just close this as keep and wait a year. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:01, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

* {{vd}} as out of scope. Images, even images of text or musical notation, are for Commons unless they appear as subjunct to content that is in scope. If TE(æ)A,ea. commits to work on bringing them in line with policy I'm happy to ''postpone'' deletion; and if brought in line with policy there will no longer be a valid deletion rationale. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 05:47, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} I will proceed with deleting these pages, but '''only''' after transferring the data and image links to Wikidata items for each song, such as I have done at [[d:Q4972501]]. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:17, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
**[[User:Xover|Xover]]: Given this, I am not able to transclude them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:59, 20 October 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:20, 20 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Supposed Confessions of a Second-rate Sensitive Mind]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Converted to redirect.  Speedied as redundant.}}
Delete this version without a backing scan. I missed moving this as part of the transcription of [[Poems, Chiefly Lyrical]], where there is now a scan-backed version (see [[Poems, Chiefly Lyrical/Supposed Confessions of a second-rate sensitive mind not in unity with itself|Supposed Confessions of a second-rate sensitive mind not in unity with itself]]. [[User:Chrisguise|Chrisguise]] ([[User talk:Chrisguise|talk]]) 15:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:28, 21 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:Old style]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept; no consensus.  Proponents of the template see use for the template, though are divided about that usage.}}
This is another of those templates that seems to be used to unnecessarily force a style rather than continue an existing font, and is contrary to our style guide. It just clags up proofreading, and adds template noise and unnecessity. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 12:39, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

:<ins>'''Keep'''</ins> How is it contrary to the style guide? Why should we have <em>fewer</em> options for styling text? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 15:34, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Koavf}}{{cquote|Formatting should be flexible and not interfere with access to the document, knowing that we are trying to reproduce works for modern readership, not provide facsimiles of the time and place. See also Help:Adding texts, Help:Beginner's guide to typography, and Help:Editing.|[[WS:Style guide]]}}{{cquote|Font face
In most situations, Wikisource does not specify the choice of font for texts; this choice is left to the browser or reader. However there are some situations in which it is useful to specify a particular font, and this can be done with one of the following templates:&hellip;|[[Help:Beginner's guide to typography]]}}
:::It is forcing a style on readers, it doesn't give flexibility, it is not allowing their choice of styling that they choose. The toggled layouts are our means for varying the presentation, similarly the {serif]<=>non-serif toggle. This template forces something that is not inherently part of our typography as you feel that it looks nicer or mimics the published work. That is not our choice, present the text and play with the size.  However, all this does is unnecessarily make proofreading harder for no tangible benefit, adds extra coding burden for no value. We are meant to be keeping things as simple as reasonable possible for the readers and for the transcribers. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 04:26, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
::::How is this forcing a style any more than (e.g.) {{tl|Serif}}? Any user can easily have local style sheets to ignore any CSS rule. How is proofreading harder? —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 04:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
:: In most of the places I see this template used, it is placed contrary to the instructions on the template.  It's being used to specify a particular font for no useful reason. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
:::Is the idea that we should be using CSS styles instead? I can see the argument for replacing the repeated wrapping  by defining it in the CSS of the whole work instead. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:03, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
:::The template does not specify any particular font. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 04:32, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
::::These templates as set up and used to not work with the [[help:layout]]s, and then, instead of being used minimally, their use is 'abused'. Plus "Serif" is not similar as some works have clear SERIF and NON-SERIF components, so in that case it is replicating tht work. Further, the serif template is long-hosted, whereas the nominated template and its was created well after the style guide was created, not in consultation with the community, and would I argue in contravention to the style guide, and it can easily be managed in its removal. I will also note that abuse of the serif template should be remedied, and look forward to your assistance in doing so.
::::It is NOT up to all of our users to locally control their CSS to obviate the use of an errant template. Personal CSS is to be used where they want a look outside the published form we produce according to our style guide. You have that concept and expectation back to front.
::::With regard to it complicating proofreading.  It is unnecessary and performs a stylistic function related to a typography of the publishing period, not to modern works. Adding it is adding burden to anyone assisting with any work, or later validating by having to continue that addition, or just having to read through it when doing any proofreading by making it busier to proofread.  It fails the KISS test. It makes things busier to proofread. As I also said, PUT IT IN A LAYOUT if it is needed, don't enforce it within a work. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 03:13, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::"Plus "Serif" is not similar as some works have clear SERIF and NON-SERIF components," Some works have clear old style and not-old style numerals. Your arguments have as much weight as any template about style, from {{tl|serif}} to {{tl|color}} to the various stylings of {{tl|hr}}. As I asked before: "How is proofreading harder?" if someone doesn't want to add it, no one is obliging him to. And if it is, then your argument applies literally just as much to any style template. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 06:09, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::: Can you link to an example of works with a clear distinction between old style and non-old style numbers?--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 19:21, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
:::::::E.g. [[The New Yorker/Volume 1/Number 1]] uses old style numerals on the [[Page:The New Yorker 0001 1925-02-21.pdf/1|front page]] and [[Page:The New Yorker 0001 1925-02-21.pdf/2|its first ad]] but not in the [[Page:The New Yorker 0001 1925-02-21.pdf/3|running text of the first article]] or [[Page:The New Yorker 0001 1925-02-21.pdf/10|subsequent prose]], but you do see it again (along with Roman numerals) in [[Page:The New Yorker 0001 1925-02-21.pdf/21|some subheadings]]. It's common for fine print or title or some kind of text that is otherwise offset to be in fancy number style, just like how some works will use serif or sans-serif for certain types of content or italicized/oblique and upright text. These arguments against style templates are thoroughly bizarre to me: if we want the ease of plain text, we can just strip out all formatting. Why have any style templates at all? Or why have some style options but not others? We can have various bold font weights and different sizes and {{tl|color}} but not old style numerals? Just makes no sense. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 19:38, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Just like {{tl|serif}}, it’s useful in some circumstances. Particularly, text in small-caps or all-small-caps looks better with old-style numbers (''i.e.'', the numbers look like they are (all-)small-caps with old-style). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:47, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
*: Since many readers can't see the effect of this template because of their browser (I'm one of those people), how does that use "[add] value to the work or [help] distinguish content"?  Why not simply use a font-size template? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:04, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
*::I would think this is because of the default font choice in the browser rather than the browser itself as it is supported by all major browsers. For example it's been supported in Safari for 7 years Chrome for 7 years, Firefox for 8 years  and edge for 3 years.  https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/font-variant-numeric . Are we only going to support things assuming users haven't upgrade their browser in a decade or using a more esoteric browser? [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:47, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} I am yet to see these templated numerals used for anything other than because the look of it reproduces to some extent the font chosen by the publisher. In all the works I've been involved with here I am yet to need to reproduce a font difference in the numerals. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 07:14, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
:{{comment}} In general I find it odd that we don't have the companion template to set lining numerals, which I would guess would also be prohibited for setting up a table in a document that generally uses text numerals? Re the general discussion I don't see a huge problem with it being used in, say, section headers or the title page where someone might stick {{tl|small caps}} / {{tl|sans-serif}} / {{tl|blackletter}} / {{tl|larger}} etc. all of which override the default preferences to match the general look. For the general body text, I personally think we should update the style guide to say avoid using it (just like someone wrapping every paragraph in {{tl|serif}} would be abusing it), but the passages highlighted talking about "fonts" doesn't cover it. These typically come with the existing font, just like I wouldn't describe æ and ae as coming from different fonts, or {{asc|AE}} and AE. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 06:12, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
::I haven't bothered to use it myself in such situations, but I also haven't bothered to use serif often as well, hence I don't have a strong opinion. As a text / typography heavy site I can understand why for things like title page people want to use more of the large set of font features available, including the six different different types of numbers that a font can come with which can be set:  https://helpx.adobe.com/fonts/using/open-type-syntax.html. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 06:47, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} I've waited to hear arguments for keeping this template, but I don't find the supporting reasons convincing. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:55, 23 September 2023 (UTC)
:'''Keep'''. To those who say that there's no legitimate usage for the template, [[Correct Composition/Chapter 4]] has a discussion of old style numerals and a comparison to modern typed numerals, and shows an example of old style numerals leading to "mismating of characters" in the text ("YEAR 165 OF THE HEJIRA"). The passage would make no sense without the old style formatting. [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 06:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:* What it says there is "It was the weakness and the uneven alignment of the arabic figures made for old-style fonts that compelled printers to use bolder-faced roman numerals for all title-pages, chapter headings, dedications..."  The section is an indictment of old-style, which is hardly a reason for us to continue to use it 120 years after this style guide condemned it. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:22, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:*:We need to use it to reproduce the styling in works, it's not a normative template that recommends the usage of old style in the first place. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 20:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:*:: I understand the assertion, but this is the '''only''' instance presented during this discussion that actually uses the template. And as I've pointed out, the template does ''not'' work for me, so its use in this one instance does not replicate the issue that the work is trying to show.  I also note that the table displaying old style on the previous page was done using an image, and ''not'' with  the template.  With exactly ''one'' demonstrated use of this template, and ''that'' use being ineffectual, there is insufficient demonstration that the template is useful or should be kept. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:23, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:*:::It's used many places. It's unfortunate that your browser doesn't recognize modern CSS, but that's no reason to remove the styling or possible semantic meaning for others. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 20:32, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:*::::Yes, it is used many places, but only '''one''' use has been justified as potentially meaningful, and ''that'' use appears in a discussion about the old style itself, which does not support the continued existence of this template.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:*:::::All of its uses are justified as reproducing the styling in the original works. —[[User:Koavf|Justin (<span style="color:grey">ko'''a'''vf</span>)]]<span style="color:red">❤[[User talk:Koavf|T]]☮[[Special:Contributions/Koavf|C]]☺[[Special:Emailuser/Koavf|M]]☯</span> 20:48, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
:*::::::I agree that much of the template's other usage is misuse (such as in [[The King in Yellow/The Repairer of Reputations]], where the template use is also inconsistently applied); I think a bot project to remove those would be a good idea. Nevertheless, I've shown that there are cases where old style numerals need to be distinguished from modern, and removing the template would require an alternative method of doing this. [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 06:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
:{{vk}} per Arcorann. However, we may limit its usage in the documentation of the template for cases like the one mentioned above. I could live with the limited usage including title pages and alike, though it is imo not necessary and I personally do not do it. I would vote against unjustified usage inside works. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 10:33, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:Constitution du Rwanda de 1991.pdf]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Scan index is not in English but French, and has not been transcribed on fr.WS since the Index there was set up two years ago.  It is therefore not eligible for original translation here, and since the fr.WS Index has been idle for two years, any Index here is premature.}}
This document is not in English, and so, I understand, should not be here.

(It is also in the French wikisource.) -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 01:02, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} If someone proofreads the copy on fr.WS, the Index can be used here to support an English translation.  However, no progress has been made in transcription on fr.WS for [[:fr:Livre:Constitution du Rwanda de 1991.pdf]] in the two years since the Index was set up there, so no local translation on en.WS can be started. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:33, 30 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Index:พรบ มธ ๒๕๓๑ (๑).pdf]] and [[Index:พรบ มธ ๒๕๓๑ (๒) ๒๕๔๑.pdf]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept. Both scans have now been transcribed and proofread at th.WS, which makes them eligible for use in creating a Wikisource-original English translation here.}}
They are not in English, should be handled as translations. @[[User:Asembleo|Asembleo]] see [[Wikisource:Translations#Wikisource_original_translations]]. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 20:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

:: {{ping|Mpaa}} They are handled as translations. I don't see the point of requesting their deletion. --[[User:Asembleo|Asembleo]] ([[User talk:Asembleo|talk]]) 20:51, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Asembleo|Asembleo]], see the policy linked. They should be at least be under the Translation ns, plus there is the requirement of having them proofread at their home wiki. On  this last requirement I would personally be not so strict, but as mentioned above to change it needs a policy discussion. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 21:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Asembleo|Asembleo]], sorry, the Translation ns is for when they will  be transcluded, my bad ... There is the point of the home wiki though. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 21:24, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Mpaa}} Works under the Translation namespace can be transcluded from indexes. There is plenty of examples, such as [[Index:Attempt of a Theory of Electrical and Optical Phenomena in Moving Bodies]], [[Index:Gruner1921.djvu]], [[Index:Dictionnaire raisonné de l’architecture française du XIe au XVIe siècle, 1.djvu]], etc. Also, the works in the above indexes do have the original text at their home wiki, though not yet proofread (but that can be done later). That's why I said I didn't see the point of requesting their deletion. --[[User:Asembleo|Asembleo]] ([[User talk:Asembleo|talk]]) 21:32, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

* {{comment}} The [[Index:Attempt of a Theory of Electrical and Optical Phenomena in Moving Bodies]] has a scan-backed copy on the de.WS, so it meets the requirements, but [[Index:Dictionnaire raisonné de l’architecture française du XIe au XVIe siècle, 1.djvu]] is ''not'' transcribed on fr.WS, and so it could be nominated for deletion.  Before hosting a Wikisource created translation here, the ''original'' language copy must be transcribed on the original language Wikisource.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:28, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
*: {{ping|Asembleo}} The standard is that the work must ''first'' exist on the home language WS, ''before'' it is translated here.  Both works can be saved if the Indexes are transcribed at th.WS --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:09, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Portal:1901–1903—Reforming the Army]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept; no consensus. Extraneous material not present on the .mil website has been removed.}}
This collection of articles, first published [https://www.history.army.mil/documents/1901/1901.htm here] on the website of the US Army Centre of Military History, seems (in my opinion) to be toeing the line between government documents and self-published web content. What do you all think? —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 22:46, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

* {{vd}} and all the listed works, none of which identify the source.  Well, one seems to indicate a ''non-government'' web page as the source, and there is no copyright statement of that page allowing us to host a copy.  At best, these might have a source somewhere, in which case these are all secondary transcriptions. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:52, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

** Hmm, interesting. I was under the impression that all five of the works in question were originally published on the CMH website (and in the public domain as PD-USGov). I do want to delete them, as out-of-scope, but if they are also second-hand then even more reason to be rid of them :) —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 22:59, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' on both scope and copyright grounds. Given that the articles were posted on a government Web-site, they are presumably in the public domain. If evidence arises to the contrary, that can be considered, but I think that this case shows a strong base likelihood of no copyright. As for scope, they were published by the U.S. government, which clearly is not “self-published” insofar as we allow all manner of similar works published by the government officials who authored them. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:23, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
*:While this is a valid point, I do not think that all web pages on all US government websites are automatically in scope just because they are published by the US Government. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 15:52, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
*::Except that '''only one''' of the pages identifies a source on the website, which appears to be a secondary transcription.  '''None''' of the other articles have any indication of their source material. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:11, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
*::*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: Again, this indicates to me that the articles were written for the Web-site, not that they were written elsewhere and magically appeared there. [[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]]: Why not? If we treat the U.S. government like any other publisher, the works are in scope because they were thus not self-published. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:00, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
*::*:Except that the website '''isn't''' identified as a source for those other articles.  There is only one article that indicates its source link.  Maybe all the articles were on the website, and maybe they weren't.  We don't have a pointer to the source URLs anywhere. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:56, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
*::*:*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: I’m not sure that I understand your claim. Is it in reference to what is on Wikisource, or for the original articles? Here, at the portal, there is a hyper-link to the Army Web-site, which has the same listing as that at the portal. I don’t know why it would be necessary, if that is what you are claiming, to include a hyper-link on every article page. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:13, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
*::*:*:But the content of the Wikisource copies does not match the web pages.  A quick visual inspection shows that, at the very least, there are added images, changes to paragraph breaks, and possibly other changes not spottable with a quick glance. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:09, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
*:::@[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. The articles are all there on the CMH website that I linked to, and it is very easy to add the links to the articles (which, of course, I intend to do if the community decides to keep them). —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 01:27, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

{{comment}} Tangled web is [[Special:Contributions/CORNELIUSSEON]]. It was problematic at the time as the contributor was not really a communicator. So we have works like [[Maneuver and Firepower: The Evolution of Divisions and Separate Brigades]].  As these works are unfinished and we have no evident source, I would just say drop them all into the [[User:CORNELIUSSEON]] subpages and leave them there as the unusual contributions that they are. Maybe having some value, though not of a completeness or clear value to be in our main ns or our portals. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 00:28, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

:Maneuver and Firepower is available here as a complete PDF that we could create an index page and transclude: https://history.army.mil/html/books/060/60-14-1/index.html, (along with the other CMH publications which similarly were published). I am happy to spend the time setting up the index pages and sticking migrate to tags on them, but finding someone interested in actually proofreading and transcluding them to bring them in line with current standards is of course significantly more work. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 00:58, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
::Where scans exist that demonstrate that they are within scope and able to be progressively proofread is all a start.  As they are going to essentially be electronic works anyway, I think that we can more safely apply the "match and split" of the bot, which I am happy to do. — [[user:billinghurst|billinghurst]] ''<span style="font-size:smaller">[[user talk:billinghurst|sDrewth]]</span>'' 02:03, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
:::This is available as a PDF [[Index:John Banks Wilson - Maneuver and Firepower (1998).pdf|here]], however I know we need to convert to DjVu for match and split. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:44, 16 May 2023 (UTC)
::::And match and splitted. On to the next of these ... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 09:58, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|MarkLSteadman}} What has been matched-and-split?  To where?  Nothing at the Portal shows backing by a scan.  Was the result transcluded?  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:21, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::So far I have migrated to indexes:
::::::* [[Maneuver and Firepower: The Evolution of Divisions and Separate Brigades]] (Matched and Splited)
::::::* [[CMH 60-9: Military Police]]
::::::* [[US Army Campaigns of World War II Series/Algeria-French Morocco]]
::::::* [[US Army Campaigns of World War II Series/Tunisia]]
::::::* [[US Army Campaigns of World War II Series/Papua]]
::::::Next I was planning to work on:
::::::* [[German Antiguerrilla Operations in the Balkans (1941-1944)]]
::::::* [[Papuan Campaign]]
::::::These are more of a project:
::::::* [[The Ardennes: Battle of the Bulge]]
::::::* [[American Volunteer Forces in the War with Spain]]
::::::* [[CMH 60-3: Infantry, Part I: Regular Army]]
::::::* [[ARMOR-CAVALRY: Part 1; Regular Army and Army Reserve]]
::::::This was in reference to the "tangled web" User:CORNELIUSSEON work that are official government publications, not the Reforming the Army Portal works. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:39, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::: So not any of the works listed at the Portal and directly relevant to the topic of the thread? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:41, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
::::::::This thread started with "So we have works like Maneuver and Firepower: The Evolution of Divisions and Separate Brigades …" and the topic is what to do it with it. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 03:56, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::I agree that the thread drifted from the topic of the '''section''' and that these works should either be tagged for tagged for deletion and a new section open to discuss them or this particular '''thread''' should stop so that the main section can be resolved. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 04:06, 18 July 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 17:48, 30 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[:Category:Shulchan Aruch]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept.  Subpage listings inside category removed.}}
Work based category. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 08:18, 7 November 2023 (UTC)
: {{vk}} There is no proscription against work-based categories, and we have more than a few. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 05:59, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::{{re|EncycloPetey}} We do have such a proscription, see [[Help:Categorization#Excluded categories]]: ''"Pages within a particular work (instead, provide a table of contents on the work's main page)."'' --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:11, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::: That's '''not''' a ban on work-based categories; it is a proscription against listing the ''pages'' of a work within a category for the work.  That would be enough to remove any page listings from a category, but not be enough to warrant deletion of the category itself.  We '''do''' have work-based categories that do ''not'' simply list the pages of the work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
: {{comment}} In ''theory'', a category like this could be used to contain all the works ''about'' a work... sort of a meta-category. For example, if you have a novel, you might have a category with 5 reviews of that novel in periodicals, and 2 academic papers analyzing the novel. We already have portals of this nature and, if I'm remembering correctly, [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]] has created some of those. So I don't know if I'd say the rule should exclude categories for works outright. However, of course, in this particular scenario, where the only content of the category is oodles of subpages of the same work, it's inappropriate. In order for my (possible) support, there'd have to be a number of works in the category that exist completely absently of the work in question, but happen to talk about the work in question. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 15:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::Yes, the proposal is based on the fact that all the pages in the category are the work’s subpages. However, I am not convinced about work-based "meta-categories" either, as [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] has noted (although I could live with them): I consider the portal NS most appopriate for such lists, and if I am not mistaken it is also the most frequent current practice. The only exception which seems reasonable are categories matched with specific periodicals or encyclopedias (such as [[:Category:Education articles in Popular Science Monthly]] or [[:Category:EB1911:Cities]]), where the categorization is not meant to provide mere lists of chapters, but to allow various theme grouping. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:49, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
:::We also have [[:Category:Bible]], which is a category based on a work, and it is a large and important category given its many subcategories. See also  [[:Category:United States Supreme Court slip opinions]] which organizes the published opinions of the US Supreme Court as they appear by volume within the work.  The reason for nomination: "Work based category" is insufficient to warrant deletion.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::::As I already specified above, the rationale of this proposal is work-based category ''containing only subpages of the work'', which is not in accordance with [[Help:Categorization#Excluded categories]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:47, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
::::: And as I stated above, that point is a rationale for removing those subpages from the category, and not a rationale for deleting the category itself. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:02, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::1) The link I provided says clearly that such categories are excluded from WS, and 2) if the category is emptied by removing all the subpages, there is really no reason to keep it. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 08:56, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::: Your first point is '''not''' clearly stated at all; the ''section'' is called Excluded categories, but the relevant bullet point describes ''Pages'' rather than a category. Your second point is debatable; there are '''two''' separate copies of this work on WS, which could be listed in the category.  And there may be works ''about'' this work that could also be listed.  The fact that a category has been filled with forbidden content does not mean the category is not viable. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:35, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::You cannot separate the bullets from their heading. Bullets always have to be understood in the context of the text they are added to. Bullet "Pages within particular work" ''placed under the heading'' "Excluded categories", and under the text "the following types of categories … are not acepted:" (ended with a colon),  clearly means "categories containing pages within particular work are excluded". However, it is also quite clear I will not convince you so let’s wait for more opinions to decide. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:06, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::If an otherwise valid category is loaded with subpages, that does not mean we then have to delete the category.  I have clarified the confusing text, since it is not a policy page, but a Help page  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:53, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::I've had the chance to properly research, and both [[Translation:Shulchan Aruch]] and [[Translation:Arukh ha-Shulchan]] belong in this category.  They are ''not'' the same work, but the latter is a revision/restatement of the former work by a different author in the original Hebrew.  So there are at least two valid members of this category. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:52, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
:No matter whether the emptied category remains or not, there seems to be consensus that the subpages should be removed from there. May I ask some bot operator to provide it, please? --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 00:24, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
:: {{ping|Jan.Kamenicek}} A bot has been used to remove those pages.  Do you concur that this discussion can now be closed? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:09, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
:::{{Re|EncycloPetey}} OK, agree, let’s close it. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 18:27, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{vk}} per EncycloPetey. I was initially inclined to delete per Jan's rationale, but I also agree with PseudoSkull and the existence of [[Translation:Shulchan Aruch]] and [[Translation:Arukh ha-Shulchan]] as valid category members is sufficient to flip my stance. Whether we ''should'' have this type of category I am less certain of (I especially dislike the EB1911 categorization mentioned elsewhere here), but that's a discussion for a different forum. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:47, 30 November 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:King Alfred's West-Saxon Version of Gregory's Pastoral Care.djvu]]==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Speedied as redundant; incomplete scan for a work with a full scan at [[Index:King Alfred's West-Saxon Version of Gregory's Pastoral Care (2).djvu]]}}
Another copy of [[Index:King Alfred's West-Saxon Version of Gregory's Pastoral Care (2).djvu]], which is later but has some work completed. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:25, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
* <s>{{vk}} These appear to be basically the same work—same source material, same text, and an English translation—but the later edition is much expanded, with almost twice as many pages.  We do host multiple editions of works, and these are not identical editions.  While there may be little need for a second edition of this work, all editions are in scope. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:07, 2 December 2023 (UTC)</s>
** {{vd}} Talking a deeper look, the nominated scan appears to be a partial copy of the work, ending abruptly at page 288.  The second scan is not an enlarged edition, but rather contains the full work. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:25, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:28, 2 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Undelete [[Translation:Mishneh Torah]] ==
{{closed/s|Closed as premature. A new request for undeletion can be made when the original has been proofread at heWS. In this particular case you can also ask me or EncycloPetey (or in principle any active admin, but since we know the backstory...) directly without going by way of a community discussion.}}
Please undelete [[Translation:Mishneh Torah]] and all of its subpages. I would like to start working on continuing this translation and want the old text as a starting point. Thanks a lot, [[User:Sije|Sije]] ([[User talk:Sije|talk]]) 20:47, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
: What text will you be working from?  Part of the problem with the previous copy was that it had no scan-backed copy on he.WS to work from.  See [[Wikisource:Translations#Wikisource original translations]], which notes that one of the things we want in a user-created translation is a "scan supported original language work ... on the appropriate language wiki, where the original language version is complete at least as far as the English translation".  As far as we could tell, there is '''no''' scan-backed original copy on he.WS, and therefore no stable original copy exists from which to create a translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::As far as I know, it is not the practice of he.WS to provide scans of any books. [https://www.google.com/books/edition/%D7%9E%D7%93%D7%A2_%D7%90%D7%94%D7%91%D7%94_%D7%96%D7%9E%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%9D/5H08AAAAcAAJ?hl Here] is a 1566 edition of the first three sections of Mishneh Torah available at Google books. Would it be OK if I work from this text? [[User:Sije|Sije]] ([[User talk:Sije|talk]]) 21:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Sije|Sije]]: While I am not familiar with the policies and practices og heWS, they do certainly use Proofread Page to transcribe scanned originals side-by-side. See e.g. [[:s:he:Index:Hebrewbooks org 38168.djvu]].{{pbr}}In any case, this undeletion request is premature; once the work has been proofread on heWS is the time to request undeletion here. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 21:30, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
::::Well, current practice has also allowed direct translations from the scans, such as [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A8%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%93%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%8F%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B4_%E0%B9%90%E0%B9%93_(%E0%B9%92%E0%B9%95%E0%B9%90%E0%B9%91-%E0%B9%91%E0%B9%90-%E0%B9%92%E0%B9%90).pdf/1 this one], and in such a case it imo might not be necessary to insist on the work being proofread in the original language Wikisource. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:30, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::::: In such cases, the transcription already has happened on the parent language Wikisource.  We are simply using the same scan locally to allow for side-by-side comparison of the text in the Page namespace, in order that the translation can be checked against the original language text.  The text still exists on the parent language WS prior to local translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::I created index pages at the heWS and [[Index:משנה תורה דפוס ווארשא-ווילנא כרך ראשון 1.pdf|one overhere]] as well, although I'm not sure about the technicalities. Any help on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot, [[User:Sije|Sije]] ([[User talk:Sije|talk]]) 20:03, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Sije|Sije]]: Now you proofread the text at heWS. Each physical page in the scan is listed in [[:s:he:Index:משנה תורה דפוס ווארשא-ווילנא כרך ראשון 1.pdf]]. Go to the first page (physical page 1, logically numbered 2) and transcribe the text and use the standard heWS templates etc. to format the page. heWS will have some guidance and help pages somewhere, or you can ask the community there for help at their village pump / scriptorium. Once you have it finished you change the [[Help:Page status|page status]] to "Proofread" (the yellow radio button). Then continue to the next page and do the same, and so on until you have proofread every page in the scan. Once that is done you can use transclusion to combine the individual book pages together into one wikipage per chapter (or other relevant subdivision). When the book is fully proofread and transcluded on heWS you can come back here to request undeletion of the old text and start translating it here.{{pbr}}PS. This page ([[Wikisource:Proposed deletions]]) is for deletion/undeletion discussions. The best place to ask for assistance is [[Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help]], so I am going to close this thread shortly and you can open new threads there when you have questions. Note that we have limited ability to help with issues on heWS so you may want to find the equivalent place there to ask for help from the heWS community.{{pbr}}PPS. I see the scan has "www.hebrewbooks.org" branding. If that is anything more than them just slapping their branding on a scan of an otherwise public domain book you may want to double-check that there isn't a copyright issue there. If hebrewbooks.org have, for example, added commentary or something there could be parts of it that are covered by copyright. I can't tell, and it looks like a mere scan of an old book, but it's better to make sure before you put too much effort into it. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:54, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
::::::::Do I have to wait until everything will be proofread (that's a lot of work) or can we do it one part at a time? For example, can the introduction be undeleted once the introduction at heWS will be proofread? [[User:Sije|Sije]] ([[User talk:Sije|talk]]) 08:21, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
:::::::::@[[User:Sije|Sije]]: Strictly speaking the policy only requires the work on the original-language Wikisource to be proofread as far as the user translation on enWS. That is, it permits just what you're suggesting here. However, based on experience and the fact that it ''is'' quite a lot of work to proofread the original, I am inclined to be very conservative in applying it to avoid having too many unfinished fragments sitting around. How about we do this in batches: work a little ahead at heWS compared to what we undelete here. Would that work for you? Based on the deletion rationale in the previous thread, you will have to do at least some work here on enWS too to make it conform to standards, so working in batches should be a practical way to divide up the task in manageable pieces. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:27, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Hello. I'm an avid editor at hebrew wikisource and i fail to see the need to require the user to proofread every page of the scan for the following reasons:
# as you mentioned - you need a scanned back up in the original language. you have it  - why further trouble the user to create also a digitial addition in hebrew? a backup is a backup.
# the digitial hebrew version of this book is already in existence in multiple (if not dozens) sources throughout the internet - one of them being on the he.wikisource itself! the fact that "the proofread box wasn't checked" seems like hardly a reason not to suffice with the 2 resource that are already in existence there 1. the scan of original printing + 2. the digital version of משנה תורה
# as was mentioned previously by [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] - you already have exceptions to this rule - in light of the points mentioned previously it would make sense to include the current discussion also in said category and not insist on having the user proofread the OTR scan of the pdf which is inferior to the current digital text of the book that is already on  hebrew wikisource anyway...

i ask for your further consideration of this topic. many thank to all the terrific work you do here and for the whole world at large. [[User:Roxette5|Roxette5]] ([[User talk:Roxette5|talk]]) 21:24, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
: This is a policy question, and not part of the undeletion request.  If you have a question about policies, the [[Wikisource:Scriptorium]] is the place to ask those questions.  But I will address point '''3''': no, the item Jan Kameníček linked to as an exception actually ''does'' meet our current requirements, since it has a proofread scan on th.WS. So it is ''not'' an exception. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:23, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:56, 9 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:Kaufmann Visayan-English Dictionary.djvu]]==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Scan made from a secondary transcription, and not a scan of the actual publication.}}
This is not the original source, but a copy of a different person’s transcription of the original. In addition, the actual original, while in the public domain in the Philippines (country of origin), had its copyright restored in the United States, and remains copyrighted for 95 years after the original date of publication (1934). [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:19, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} The [[Wikisource:Proposed_deletions/Archives/2014-12#Index:Kaufmann_Visayan-English_Dictionary.djvu|previous deletion discussion]] was closed on the basis of the work being published before 1923.  However, I can find no information presented concerning the date of publication in the discussion.  At the time, there was a simultaneous discussion at Commons, which resulted in the file being moved here.  The commons discussion also does not present date information that I can find.  Do we know the actual date of publication, or are we assuming the date of 1934 on the Index is correct? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:01, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
**[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: Looking it up, I got the date wrong. The author died in 1942, so the copyright in the Philippines expired in 1993, which is before the URAA date (1996). Thus, there was no restoration, and the work is in the public domain in the United States. I find no proof anywhere of a pre-1923 date. However, I believe my non-deletion reason still stands, so I don’t think that the discussion should be closed. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:10, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
*** The only reason I would close this early is if there were a Speedy reason in favor of deletion, or a clear copyright violation.  Since the copyright seems OK, and there is no Index for the original publication, this will sit for (at least) the usual week before action. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:18, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom (minus the resolved copyright issue). --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:21, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:59, 8 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:William Shakespeare (1564-1616)/First Folio]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. List of plays with no links or content from the FF& encyclopedic content beyond scope.}}
This page merely lists the plays found in the First Folio, with information copied ''verbatim'' from the Wikipedia article.  It does not (and never has) actually linked to the ''First Folio''.  Nor does it link to the facsimile of the FF, nor to copies of the plays found in a copy of the FF.  As this is simply a list of Shakespeare's plays (which are listed at the [[Author:William Shakespeare (1564-1616)|author's page]]) with Wikipedia content, it is redundant and beyond scope, and serves no purpose here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:56, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}}. This is really the job of the table of contents on a collective work (which in this case would be the Folio). [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 02:08, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per  nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:40, 3 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} as above. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 03:43, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:56, 10 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:The Collected Works of Theodore Parker Slavery part 2 volume 6.djvu]]==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted as redundant.}}
According to the information filled in by Bob Burkhardt, this seems to be duplicitous of [[Index:The Collected Works of Theodore Parker volume 6.djvu]], which is more or less entirely proofread and transcluded. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:50, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

* <s>{{keep}}</s>. Unfortunately, the proofread scan misses page no. 323, while the nominated one has the page. So I suggest keeping the nominated scan, moving the proofread pages here, and deleting the other one. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 00:05, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
** {{comment}} A scan repair on the proofread scan could also resolve the issue.  A move to the other scan would require a page offset, since the page numbers relative to scan pages is not the same. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
**:File fixed. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 23:29, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
**::{{Re|Mpaa}} Great! However, the file at Commons still links to the same source where this part of the scan is missing, which is quite confusing. Would it be possible to mention the repair and the source of the added part at the file's page at Commons? --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 23:58, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
**:::@[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]] done, I added as a note. Yes, it is indeed worth while noting the source of the replacements we make on the files. It is not an established practice. We should find the best way to document it (e.e in summary of changes, as "note" in the description, etc..) [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 21:25, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 07:29, 7 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Page:Officers, 129th Field Artillery, at regimental headquarters at Château du Chesnay near Courcemont, France, March 1919. Cap - NARA - 530949.tif]] ==
{{closed/s|Speedied as out of scope.}}
Just a photo without text. The photo is in commons. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 10:20, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:26, 10 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Isaac Herzog]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Modern author with no known works in English that are in public domain.}}
This is an author born in 1960, and the only item listed is a link to a page on the New York Times that's not free to access. As there's no free works or expectation thereof, we should delete it.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 00:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
*That speech might be <code>PD-ILGov</code>—at least, the same user who created this page uploaded a similar speech citing that as a rationale. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:50, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
*:That isn't a speech but an Op-Ed. But I would have thought that there must be works by him that are PD. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 07:21, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} The same user created [[Author:Mohammed bin Zayed]], which needs serious cleaning up. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:57, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} unless we can find something authored by him that is in English and is in PD.  A look at the WikiQuotes page turns up only quotations cited from news articles; and Hebrew Wikisource has only a single external link, as we do. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:02, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} unless we can find some PD works. By the way, as this person was a government official, there is a possibility of some edicts existing in English, though it's a stretch. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 04:39, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:51, 15 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Template:math tag]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Unused, undocumented, abandoned template.}}
Unused, undocumented, abandoned since 2015, and should in any case not be used in its current form. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:49, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} per nom. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 23:57, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:54, 15 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:The Mahabharata (Kishori Mohan Gangopadhyay, First Edition) Volume 1.pdf]]==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as redundant (and missing pages); a replacement Index now exists.}}
This index (which has a number of duplicated pages) should be deleted in place of [[Index:The Mahabharata of Krishna-Dwaipayana Vyasa (1884).djvu]]. Ideally, the name of the latter file should be harmonized with that of the whole set. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 03:48, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

:Without looking too closely, this can probably be speedied as redundant. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:27, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
:*[[User:Xover|Xover]]: My nomination was in the hope that someone would feel compelled to get the names sorted out, which takes redirect-quash privileges. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:01, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
:*:If it is OK to keep the djvu extension, I can take care of the alignment. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 18:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:58, 15 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:An Account of the Scarabaeus Galeatus Pulsator, or the Death Watch, by Mr. Hugh Stackhouse. Communicated by John Harwood, L. L. D. R. S. S. (IA jstor-103765).pdf]]==
{{closed/s|result=Speedied as redundant; transcribed pages migrated to complete index.}}
A duplicate of pages from [[Index:Philosophical Transactions - Volume 033.djvu]]. The article should be moved to a subpage. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 22:24, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:42, 15 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Tempest (unsourced)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted; unsourced copy, and we have four scan-backed editions of the same play.}}
An unsourced edition.  We have three editions fully backed by scans. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:31, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} per nom [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 21:16, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

: {{vd}} [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 21:17, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:18, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:07, 17 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Anthem (Santa Clara Broncos)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Internet website edition; redundant to scan-backed edition.}}
Non-scan backed edition, where a scan-backed version (of far better quality) does exist. It claims to have been taken from a website, and per the talk page of the edition, this is due to a transwiki from Wikipedia sometime back in the 2000s. We should stay as far away as possible from "website versions", especially where a scan-backed version does exist. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 10:20, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. I do agree we should stay away from  "website versions", especially from the unstable ones which may appear and disappear in any moment. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:04, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:36, 17 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Verse in English from Eighteenth-Century Ireland/Song of the Angels at the nativity of our Blessed Saviour]] - formerly called [[While shepherds watched their flocks by night (1998)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Copy from non-PD work; we have two copies of this same song from scan-backed works.}}
This edition is from a non-free collection, and is substantially identical to the two editions we have from free collections —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 16:56, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} per nom. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 09:45, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}}, redundant. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:01, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:@[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]]: Is there an update you should have posted to this thread? [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:20, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
::{{re|Xover}} if you mean the fact that I renamed it from [[While shepherds watched their flocks by night (1998)]] to [[Verse in English from Eighteenth-Century Ireland/Song of the Angels at the nativity of our Blessed Saviour]] - I don't think that's particularly relevant to the discussion, though perhaps people might find it confusing.
::To clarify, the deletion nomination is for [[Verse in English from Eighteenth-Century Ireland/Song of the Angels at the nativity of our Blessed Saviour]] formerly known as [[While shepherds watched their flocks by night (1998)]], for the reasons outlined above: the edition is from the non-free collection [[Verse in English from Eighteenth-Century Ireland]] and is substantially identical to two other editions we have from [[The Cambridge Carol Book/While shepherds watch'd their flocks by night|The Cambridge Carol Book]] and [[Our American Holidays - Christmas/Christmas (Tate)|Our American Holidays - Christmas]]. —[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]] ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 22:01, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Not sure why the move was necessary/useful, as the page seems heading towards its deletion... --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 22:55, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
::::According to the history, the page was moved first, then the date of publication was discovered, then the page was nominated for deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:12, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Beleg Tâl|Beleg Tâl]]: It was indeed the page move. I was confused by the fact it was seemingly moved within a containing work while the proposal here said the containing work was ineligible for hosting, and about why you'd listed a redirect for deletion. It would probably have been less confusing to list it as [[Verse in English from Eighteenth-Century Ireland/Song of the Angels at the nativity of our Blessed Saviour]] (if EP's surmise above is correct). Anyways, thanks for clarifying. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 23:58, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Akerman Steppe]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Work of unknown provenance; possible copyvio.}}
I am not sure whether this is the contributor's own translation or whether it has been copied here from somewhere. If the latter is true, there is no evidence of the text being in the public domain, as no information about the translator can be found anywhere, and so the text should be deleted as a potential copyvio. The contributor kept changing the translation, which suggests that it might be their own translation, or that they tweaked somebody elses translation. If it is a tweaked translation, it should be deleted as out of our scope. If it is contributor's own translation, it has not been based on a scan supported original language work present on the appropriate language wiki, as required by [[WS:Translations]], and so it should be deleted anyway. Unfortunately, [[User:LucDar]], the contributor who added the work, [[User talk:LucDar|does not communicate]]. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:33, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

:I suspect that you are right that it is the user's own translation. (There is a scan backed original on [https://pl.wikisource.org/wiki/Strona:PL_Adam_Mickiewicz-Sonety_Adama_Mickiewicza_028.jpeg]). -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 14:43, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
::Hm, I see. Well, now it depends on whether we can rule out the other possibilities (especially the one of a tweaked translation), which I am really not sure about, or whether we can assume that Darek J. Jezierski and LucDar are the same person. But we can wait a while whether they answer either on their talk page or here (having been pinged above). --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:00, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Indeed. If this should be treated as a WS translation, it needs a number of changes - and we can't make those based on a suspicion. btw, there is another version at [[Sonnets from the Crimea/The Ackerman Steppe]] -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 19:44, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:47, 20 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== Orphaned outdated subpages of [[Library of Congress Classification]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Obsolete pages from old schema; no incoming links.}}
While scrolling [[:Category:Texts without a source]] I discovered that there were numerous subpages of [[Library of Congress Classification]] that are now orphaned, of the form [[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HB -- Economic Theory and Demography]]. These are superseded by those of the form [[Library of Congress Classification/Class H]] if I'm not mistaken. Don't know if there are places still linking to those old pages, but can we get away with deleting them? (Redirects could work if necessary.) [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 11:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} If you can provide a list of the pages, it will be a lot easier to check them. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:42, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
*:I used a [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Library+of+Congress+Classification%2FClass&namespace=0 prefix search] to check -- I count 75 pages that use the old format, plus [https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex?prefix=Library+of+Congress+Classification%3A&namespace=0 the corresponding redirects from the even older format]. I did see a few links to the otherwise orphaned pages (for example, [[Judaism]] links to [[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BM -- Judaism]]), so we might need to make them redirects instead. [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 10:43, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
*::The redirects in general appear to have no incoming links, and the subpages appear to have few and fairly random links (a WikiProject temporary subpage somewhere, talk pages, etc.). Are any of these actually need for anything? [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 12:10, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
*:: {{ping|Arcorann}} I've found that prefix searches are unreliable.  For example, they will regularly fail to list redirect pages in favor of the redirect targets.  And without a list, it's hard to determine exactly ''which'' items are nominated for deletion and which aren't. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:43, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*:::Here's a list then. It's in a collapsed box due to length. I haven't checked these fully for any links there may be to them.
{{collapse top|title=List of outdated pages}}
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BD -- Speculative philosophy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BF -- Psychology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BJ -- Ethics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BL -- Religions. Mythology. Rationalism]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BM -- Judaism]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BP -- Islam. Bahá'ísm. Theosophy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BQ -- Buddhism]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BR -- Christianity]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BS -- The Bible]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BT -- Doctrinal Theology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BV -- Practical Theology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass BX -- Christian Denominations]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class B, subclass B -- Philosophy (General)]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DA -- History of Great Britain]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DB -- History of Austria, Liechtenstein, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DC -- History of France, Andorra, and Monaco]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DD -- History of Germany]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DF -- History of Greece]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DG -- History of Italy and Malta]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DH -- History of the Low Countries and Benelux]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DJ -- History of the Netherlands]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DK -- History of Russia, The Soviet Union, Former Soviet Republics, and Poland]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DL -- History of Northern Europe and Scandinavia]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DP -- History of Spain and Portugal]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DQ -- History of Switzerland]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DR -- History of the Balkan Peninsula]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DS -- History of Asia]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DT -- History of Africa]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D, subclass DU -- History of Oceania]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class D -- General History]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass GA -- Mathematical geography. Cartography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass GB -- Physical geography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass GC -- Oceanography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass GN -- Anthropology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass GR -- Folklore]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass GT -- Manners and Customs (General)]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass GV -- Recreation and Leisure]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class G, subclass G -- Geography (General). Atlases. Maps]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HB -- Economic Theory and Demography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HD -- Industries, Land Use, and Labor]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HE -- Transportation and Communications]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HF -- Commerce]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HG -- Finance]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HJ -- Public Finance]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HM -- Sociology (General)]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HQ -- Family, Marriage, Woman, and Sexuality]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HS -- Societies]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HT -- Communities, Classes, and Races]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class H, subclass HV -- Social Pathology, Social and Public Welfare, and Criminology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PB -- Modern languages and Celtic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PC -- Romanic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PD -- Germanic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PE -- English language]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PF -- West Germanic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PH -- Uralic and Basque languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PJ -- Oriental philology and literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PM -- Hyperborean, Indian and artificial languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PN -- General Literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PR -- English literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PS -- American Literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PT -- Germanic literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass PZ -- Fiction and juvenile belles lettres]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class P, subclass P -- Philology linguistics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QA -- Mathematics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QB -- Astronomy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QC -- Physics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QD -- Chemistry]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QE -- Geology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QH -- Natural history - Biology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QK -- Botany]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QL -- Zoology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QM -- Human anatomy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QP -- Physiology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass QR -- Microbiology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification/Class Q, subclass Q -- Science (General)]]
{{collapse bottom}}
::::And the corresponding redirects from the even older format:
{{collapse top|title=List of redirects}}
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BD -- Speculative philosophy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BF -- Psychology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BJ -- Ethics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BL -- Religions. Mythology. Rationalism]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BM -- Judaism]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BP -- Islam. Bahá'ísm. Theosophy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BQ -- Buddhism]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BR -- Christianity]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BS -- The Bible]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BT -- Doctrinal Theology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BV -- Practical Theology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass BX -- Christian Denominations]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class B, subclass B -- Philosophy (General)]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DA -- History of Great Britain]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DB -- History of Austria, Liechtenstein, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DC -- History of France, Andorra, and Monaco]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DD -- History of Germany]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DF -- History of Greece]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DG -- History of Italy and Malta]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DH -- History of the Low Countries and Benelux]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DJ -- History of the Netherlands]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DK -- History of Russia, The Soviet Union, Former Soviet Republics, and Poland]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DL -- History of Northern Europe and Scandinavia]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DP -- History of Spain and Portugal]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DQ -- History of Switzerland]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DR -- History of the Balkan Peninsula]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DS -- History of Asia]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DT -- History of Africa]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class D, subclass DU -- History of Oceania]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass GA -- Mathematical geography. Cartography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass GB -- Physical geography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass GC -- Oceanography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass GN -- Anthropology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass GR -- Folklore]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass GT -- Manners and Customs (General)]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass GV -- Recreation and Leisure]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class G, subclass G -- Geography (General). Atlases. Maps]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HB -- Economic Theory and Demography]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HD -- Industries, Land Use, and Labor]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HE -- Transportation and Communications]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HF -- Commerce]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HG -- Finance]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HJ -- Public Finance]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HM -- Sociology (General)]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HQ -- Family, Marriage, Woman, and Sexuality]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HS -- Societies]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HT -- Communities, Classes, and Races]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class H, subclass HV -- Social Pathology, Social and Public Welfare, and Criminology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PB -- Modern languages and Celtic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PC -- Romanic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PD -- Germanic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PE -- English language]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PF -- West Germanic languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PH -- Uralic and Basque languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PJ -- Oriental philology and literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PM -- Hyperborean, Indian and artificial languages]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PN -- General Literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PR -- English literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PS -- American Literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PT -- Germanic literature]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass PZ -- Fiction and juvenile belles lettres]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class P, subclass P -- Philology linguistics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QA -- Mathematics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QB -- Astronomy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QC -- Physics]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QD -- Chemistry]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QE -- Geology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QH -- Natural history - Biology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QK -- Botany]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QL -- Zoology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QM -- Human anatomy]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QP -- Physiology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass QR -- Microbiology]]
*:::*[[Library of Congress Classification:Class Q, subclass Q -- Science (General)]]
{{collapse bottom}}
::::[[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 10:23, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:55, 21 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Flowers of the Forest (second hand)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted as secondhand transcription, for which a scan-backed copy exists.}}
Second hand copy, of which we have a scan-backed version at [[The Book of Scottish Song/The Flowers of the Forest]] —[[User:Beleg Âlt|Beleg Âlt]] {{sup/s|class=}}[[User:Beleg Tâl|BT]]{{sup/e}} ([[User talk:Beleg Tâl|talk]]) 21:55, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 21:40, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:39, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[The System of the Stars]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Abandoned transcription with only one chapter and no identified source.  A search found only poor-quality scans.}}
Abandoned since 2011 and consists of nothing but an unlinked toc and one very incomplete chapter subpage that's mostly uncorrected OCR (not to mention work-in-progress artefacts that have no place in our presentation namespaces). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:14, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

:{{vd}} per nom. Even if someone wants to work on it now that it's been brought up here, the current page will not be helpful towards that end. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 07:57, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} Is the linked scan usable? Has anyone checked? If it is, I'm willing to set up an Index page so that, following deletion, this might enter the MC. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:51, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
*:Based on a cursory look, {{GBS|8jegAAAAMAAJ}} and {{GBS|JQdDAAAAIAAJ}} look better than {{IA|systemstars00clergoog}}, but none of the scans have a very clear image of the diagram in the front of the book. —[[User:CalendulaAsteraceae|CalendulaAsteraceae]] ([[User talk:CalendulaAsteraceae|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/CalendulaAsteraceae|contribs]]) 22:20, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
*:* The first of those is the first edition, but there is significant distortion of the text on multiple pages.  The second is the second edition, but the illustrations are poor, suffering from moire effects among other problems.  This is a work I wouldn't want to proofread from a poor scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:33, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
*:* Hathi's scans are the same poor ones from Google Books listed above. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:03, 21 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Aleksandar Hemon]] ==

{{closed/s|Speedied with consent of the original contributor.}}
A modern author with no known hostable works.  This is one of several pages created by {{ping|User:Santasa99}} for authors from Bosnia and Herzegovina.  None of the pages list any hostable works, and most list no works at all.  If they have no hostable works in English, I recommend deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:38, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} No evidence of English works out of copyright in the US. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:10, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
:*'''Comment ''' - I agree with nomination, it was my oversight and error.
:[[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 16:29, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
: '''Speedied'''. Original creator agrees with nomination. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 17:07, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 21:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Branko Ćopić]] ==
{{closed/s|Speedied with consent of the original contributor.}}
{{vd}} No evidence of English works out of copyright in the US. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:10, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

:*'''Comment''' - Hedgehog's Home by Branko Ćopić is famous adaptation for English language and it's used as a case study for translation and adaptation. However, it is written in early 1950's. His earliest collection of short stories and poems are those written in 1930's.
:[[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 16:35, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
::: {{ping|Santasa99}} Unfortunately, since Ćopić's works were from after 1928 and published outside of the United States, those works are by default protected by URAA, meaning they're almost certainly under copyright in the US. We can only host uncopyrighted works per US copyright law, and hosting an author page with only currently copyrighted works is pointless. I think the time to have an author page for Ćopić is probably around the 2030s, when his first work goes public-domain. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:46, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
: '''Speedied'''. Original creator agrees with nomination. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 17:07, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 21:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Mehmedalija Mak Dizdar]] ==
{{closed/s|Speedied with consent of the original contributor.}}
{{vd}} No evidence of English works out of copyright in the US. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:10, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

:*'''Comment''' - Francis R. Jones is main translator of Mak Dizdar poetry, which means those are published in translation after 1950's. Is there any translation out of copyright I can't say without checking around first.
:[[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 16:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
::: {{ping|Santasa99}} A general rule of thumb for copyright law is, was it published before January 1928? If so, we can have them hosted. If not, in most cases, no. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
::::Dizdar was born in 1917, Ćopić 1915, so probably no works before 1928, and I doubt any of their work has been released into public domain. [[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 17:00, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
: '''Speedied'''. Original creator agrees with nomination. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 17:07, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 21:45, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[Author:Ivo Andrić]] ==
{{closed/s|After evidence that there exists at least one English-language translation of the author's work that is in the public domain, most participants in the discussion were in favour of keeping the author page. The rationales and strength of the position varied somewhat though: some considered the mere ''potential'' that an eligible text ''could'' exist to be sufficient to make an Author: page in scope, while others felt it was due to the ''actual'' existence of a ''concrete'' eligible text. Some questioned whether it was enough for an eligible text to exist elsewhere versus having it transcribed here while others expressed a ''weak'' keep vote on this basis.

On this precedent Author: pages for authors where it is known that at least one eligible work actually exists will generally tend to be considered in scope, and irrespective of whether we actually host the text yet or not. Author: pages for authors who have ''no'' known eligible works but where such works ''could'' exist in the future (as either a [[WS:T|Wikisource translation]] or a compatibly licensed third-party translation) are here undetermined and would require community discussion to decide whether to keep or delete.
}}
<s>Weak {{vk}}</s> I did find on their Wikipedia article the following poetry collections:

* 1918 ''Ex Ponto.'' Književni jug, Zagreb.
* 1920 ''Nemiri.'' Sv. Kugli, Zagreb.

The originals would be out of copyright so would be (in theory) in scope for the Translation namespace. But, there being an English translation out of copyright already in existence is unlikely. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:10, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
* <s>{{vd}}. The mere possibility that works ''could'' exist is not sufficient. Unless a concrete work actually exists the author page is out of scope. A Wikisource translation ''once started'' would count as such a concrete work, but not a hypothetical future Wikisource translation. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 21:39, 24 December 2023 (UTC)</s>
:: {{ping|Xover}} I have no strong opinion towards this particular author either way, but by "exist" and "concrete work", do you mean anything with a transcription already available at Wikisource? Because if that's the case, we have a ''huge'' backlog of author pages created by primarily ''administrators'' to delete. Even prolific, long-time ones like Billinghurst, etc. add author pages to the site constantly, to prepare for future, hypothetical transcriptions (which I think is a good thing). I am not at all invested in translations, but I'm just hoping you're not suggesting this stringent measure against mainspace hypotheticals. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 21:53, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
::: I interpret the remark as meaning there is demonstration of a published English translation of something they wrote, whether or not a scan has been uploaded and transcription started.  If there are no known hostable works (published, in English, and in public domain) and no valid user translation is underway, then there is no value in having an Author page on the English Wikisource.  I would grant a little leeway if we have evidence of a work that will shortly enter public domain, but what value is there to our readers in having Author pages listing only works that we can't provide to them? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]]: I mean literally the difference between a work that already exists (because it was already published at some point, whether we have a scan of it somewhere or not) and a work that could potentially exist but currently does not. A Wikisource translation is an original work that either exists or does not. The same would go for a third-party published translation released under a compatible license: it ''could'' happen at some point, but until it does that's no argument for keeping an author page around.{{pbr}}We may have to rethink some of this stuff once Author: pages are backed by structured data (either on Wikidata, locally using something SDC-like, or a combination), but until then… [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 22:37, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' [https://www.ivoandric.org.rs/english/ Ivo Andrić Foundation] offers translated portions of novels and bunch of short stories, few essays, and other writings, while I suspect pre-1928 works should be available online since the author is planetary relevant.
*: The English translations must also be in the public domain.  There are many websites with translations under a license that is incompatible with Wikisource.  In this case, the Foundation has copyright notice stating that all rights are reserved, so we cannot use their translations. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:35, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*::Even if they host some piece written before 1928? (Something doesn't make sense with their claim since the rights for three titles for which he received a Noble were actually transferred to Museum of Literature of Bosnia and Herzegovina and Library of SR Bosnia and Herzegovina by Andrić himself Further, are they owners of their own translations or copyright on works - this is so complicated that eludes me completely.) [[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 01:20, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*::: The person who made the translation holds the copyright.  Copyright for most of Europe lasts until 70 years after the death of the translator.  The translation has to be in public domain to be hosted here, and copyright on the translation is separate from the copyright of the original. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:37, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*::::Are you sure that their "all rights reserved" does not extend to authors original works, that it's just translation that they are protecting? [[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 02:17, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*::::Also, please check [https://archive.org/details/dasfruleinroma00andruoft/page/6/mode/2up this version out] - it seems copyright free; only it's in German :-( [[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 02:25, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*::::And, [[iarchive:in.ernet.dli.2015.149540/page/n5/mode/2up|this one is in English]] (1919), and [https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.461009 The Damned Yard or Accursed Yard] too.. [[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]] ([[User talk:Santasa99|talk]]) 02:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*:::::@[[User:Santasa99|Santasa99]]: I don't know what you mean by "seems copyright free". Copyright automatically comes into being the instant something of sufficient creativity is fixed in some kind of tangible medium, and protects the work for some given term. For our purposes the most relevant copyright terms are defined as lasting 95 years from publication (in the US) and lasting 70 years after the author's death (most of the rest of the world). A translation is what's called a "derivative work": it takes the original text and transforms it into a new work. As such, two copyrights will apply to translations: the one of the original work, and the one for the translation. Both copyrights have independent terms and both can and usually do have different owners. In [https://archive.org/details/dasfruleinroma00andruoft this] scan—ignoring the fact it's in German and so out of scope for that reason—there is no evidence of publication date or identity of the translator. That means we can't determine the copyright term, not that it doesn't exist.{{pbr}}''[https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.149540 The Bridge on the Drina]'' was translated by Lovett Fielding Edwards. Edwards was born in 1901, so I very much doubt he had translations of Nobel prize-winning authors published when he was 18 years old (the translation seems to have actually been published in 1977). He died in 1984 so his copyright in most of the world lasts until 1984 + 70 = 2054, and in the US until 2072.{{pbr}}''[https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.461009 Devil's Yard]'' was translated by Kenneth Johnstone and published in 1962 in the US, so its copyright likely does not expire until after 2056. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:16, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*::::::The short story "The Zepa Bridge" is in the public domain in the US, having been published in English in the ''Slavonic Review'' in 1926 https://www.jstor.org/stable/4202083 [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:07, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*:::::::Note the ''The Bridge on the Drina'' was published in 1959 and then copyright was renewed. ''The Vizier's Elephant'' was published in 1962 and renewed.  ''Bosnian Story'' was published in 1958 in London so it is unlikely to be simultaneous publication. There was a collection published in 1957, ''Some Yugoslav Novelists'' which might contain some of his work. I found translations of ''Ex Ponto'' and ''A Dialogue'' in ''An Anthology of Modern Yugoslav Poetry'' by Lavrin but it is also published in London so also likely copyrighted in the US. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 17:55, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*{{comment}} It has been shown above that some English language PD translations exist so I cannot vote for deletion based on current rules, although I would like to, as I do not find creating empty author entries without any links to their WS hosted works useful. [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 15:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vk}} a public domain short story from 1926 exists. The broader question of the sequencing and process of staging the various pieces of work is a separate discussion, which probably would need at least a proposal to discuss, in general I prefer doing author pages early so that I can attach death date information to know where to upload works (WS vs. Commons), hence I would prefer to discuss a proposal to understand how others envisage the process working in a (upload --> index --> proofread --> transclusion --> author flow). [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:34, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
* Stronger {{vk}} per evidence provided by [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:03, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vk}}. Since we now have an extant work that is eligible for hosting, the Author: page is within scope. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 16:31, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vk}} Translation should be a first-class citizen; if it's good enough to have the possibility of a scan to have an Author page, then it should be good enough to have the possibility of being translated to have an Author page. At the very least, works with scan-backed transcriptions on other Wikisources should be eligible for Author pages, even if no timely translations were made.--[[User:Prosfilaes|Prosfilaes]] ([[User talk:Prosfilaes|talk]]) 23:21, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
*: I'm not so broadly generous, at least not without serious exceptions and qualifications.  For example, I found a medieval poet who seemed to be a really good candidate, at first, for including here.  But it turns out that what he's known for is his translation of Dante into his native language.  Even if that were backed by a scan, it would be silly to translate his translation. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:36, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
*:Note that what I argued above was not the ''possibility'' of a scan, but the ''actuality'' of one. The difference between a "scan" and a "Wikisource translation" is that the former represents something that actually exists, whereas the latter is a mere hypothetical. The practical implications of demanding the former is roughly the status quo, but for the latter it would be to allow entirely empty Author: pages for every single person that ever lived because we might hypothetically discover that they had once written something. For practical reasons there must be ''some'' kind of limitation: requiring a concrete artefact to actually exist would seem a reasonable place to draw the line. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:22, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:09, 31 December 2023 (UTC)</small>

== [[American Novel]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Nominated as disambig page for linking based on subtitle.  Converted to redirect by creator.}}
Disambiguation page, distinguishes ''[[Democracy: An American Novel]]'' from ''[[The American Novel]]''.

I don't think that subtitles should be treated like titles in this way. {{smaller|(In fact, I don't think subtitles should be respected at all in our titling scheme, but that's another matter.)}} Except in cases where the subtitle contains "or," to indicate an alternate title to the same work, a subtitle is just an appendage to the title. I don't believe many would ever look up "An American Novel" thinking that was the exact name of ''Democracy''.

Think about it like this: There are probably thousands of novels with the subtitle "A Novel". There are also probably thousands of biographies with the subtitle "The Man and His Work". But I think putting all of these in a disambiguation page for "Novel" and "Man and His Work" would be very messy.

Although, if there's some ''hard evidence'' that "An American Novel" is a common misconception for "Democracy: An American Novel", such as with "The Living Dead" and [[Night of the Living Dead]], I'll change my vote.

Pinging {{ping|Neo-Jay}} who created the page. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 20:04, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
:'''Not delete'''. If subtitles should not be treated like titles, [[American Novel]] should be '''changed to a redirect page''' to [[The American Novel]], and should not be deleted. --[[User:Neo-Jay|Neo-Jay]] ([[User talk:Neo-Jay|talk]]) 08:46, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} and redirect to [[The American Novel]]. I agree that subtitles should not, generally, be used as part of the wikipage name and should not be considered part of the title proper for disambiguation purposes. That means [[Democracy: An American Novel]] should really live at [[Democracy (1880)]] and be dab'ed at [[Democracy]]. Which in turn means it should be removed from the list of works on [[American Novel]], and because that disambiguation page is then left with just one entry it can be changed into a redirect to [[The American Novel]]. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:44, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
:: {{smaller|Or [[Democracy (Adams)]]. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 15:48, 31 December 2023 (UTC)}}
:: Do you mean "deleting the page and then creating a new redirect page", or "not deleting the page, just changing it to be a redirect page"? I, as the creator of that page, have [https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=American_Novel&diff=prev&oldid=13755722 changed the page to be a redirect page] to [[The American Novel]]. Now we can discuss whether this ''redirect page'' should be deleted. In my view, it should not.--[[User:Neo-Jay|Neo-Jay]] ([[User talk:Neo-Jay|talk]]) 12:13, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
:::@[[User:Neo-Jay|Neo-Jay]]: In general, "delete" in discussions here primarily means "fundamentally change the content of a given wikipage". Sometimes that means outright technical deletion, sometimes it means technically deleting it to recreate it as something else, and sometimes it means just changing the content. In this particular case I mean just replacing the contents with a redirect. I believe that's also what [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] has in mind here. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:21, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:11, 2 January 2024 (UTC)</small>

== More Grimm's Fairy Tales==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Unsourced duplicates of stories that each exist in more than one scan-backed editions}}
Nominating another small group of these that are redundant to now scanned copies. Should be non-controversial, but giving a chance for anyone to object before deleting them in bulk.

* [[The Wolf and the Man (unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Wolf and the Man]]
* [[The Fox and the Cat (Grimm, unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Fox and the Cat]]
* [[The Twelve Huntsmen (unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Twelve Huntsmen]]
* [[Thumbling as Journeyman (unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/Thumbling as Journeyman]]
* [[The Three Feathers (unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Three Feathers]]
* [[The Three Sons of Fortune (unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Three Sons of Fortune]]
* [[Gossip Wolf and the Fox (unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/Gossip Wolf and the Fox]]
* [[Clever Hans (without source)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/Clever Hans]]
* [[The Pink (unsourced)]] duplicative of [[Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/The Pink]]

[[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 07:19, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} per nom. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:47, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}} --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} Several of these are linked from versions pages, so the incoming links from those pages should also be removed at deletion. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 15:42, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:: Of course. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{vd}} Yes, please let's not keep these around. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 16:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)</small>

== [[Translation:Ginza Rabba]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Abandoned, incomplete, user-created translation without backing scan or transcription on Wikisource of original language.}}
I suggest deleting thiw work because of several issues:
# Translating work seems abandoned since September 2021
# The translation is not being done in accordance with our policy, i. e. based on a scanbacked original proofread at the appropriate language Wiki
# In fact it is not a translation of the original at all, it is a translation of a translation, which is imo a bad practice that enhances the risk of various imprecisions and shifts in meanings.
Pinging [[User:Nebulousquasar]] as the translator. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 16:41, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} German Wikisource does not have this work, though they do have a link to a scan of the German text.  While translations of translations can be bad practice, we host more than a few, some of which are published translations of translations, such as the "King James" Bible and the Sommer translation of [[The Code of Hammurabi]].  And here, the source text is Aramaic, published in translation by a German translator, and a translation of that edition might be our best option for ever hosting the text, since we are unlikely to ever get an Aramaic copy hosted on any Wikisource and then have Aramaic translators here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:59, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*: If I remember correctly, German Wikisource has a very poor practice for scan-backing, so I don’t think that it should be a strict requirement in that sense. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 20:54, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
*:* It's not that it isn't scan-backed there; it doesn't exist there ''at all''.  They have one small portion, and the rest of the contents are red-linked.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:20, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 07:38, 5 January 2024 (UTC)</small>

== [[Harper's Weekly Editorials by Carl Schurz]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. Subpages moved to be subpages of [[Harper's]]}}
Compilation of various editorials by Carl Schurz, partly taken from [[The Writings of Carl Schurz]] and mostly from other sources. The compilation should be deleted as out of scope, although it is possible to identify the sources of the individual editorials and split them under their original publications, if somebody undertakes to do it. Pinging [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]] (although inactive since April 2022). -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:24, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} This might be moved to the Author: namespace as a subpage.  We have similar pages such as [[Author:Marcus Tullius Cicero/Speeches]].  But the individual editorials would need to be attached to the works from which they came, as they could not be so moved. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:23, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I would say a portal would be a more natural way to collect these as they're the intersection of an author and a specific publication. The Author: subpages we have are a bit of a mess and overall poorly managed (partly because we have no very clear guidance on them). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:33, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
*:* Does that mean moving these to the Author namespace?  Otherwise there would be no basepage, since the listing page would be moved and the [[Harper's Weekly]] page was moved to the Portal namespace in 2021. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:36, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:I mean that the wikipage [[Harper's Weekly Editorials by Carl Schurz]] should be moved to [[Portal:Harper's Weekly Editorials by Carl Schurz]], and the [[Special:Prefixindex/Harper's Weekly Editorials by Carl Schurz/|subpages]] should be treated as if they were top-level mainspace pages. The subpages can be either preserved as top-level standalone works, or moved within the containing work if it can be identified and it is practicable to do so. According to the notes these are mostly Harper's Weekly, so we could (re)create [[Harper's Weekly]] and move these to [[Harper's Weekly/1893-03-18/The Annexation Policy]] etc. (the previous page at [[Harper's Weekly]] was presumably moved because it was a collection of extlinks, more suited to a WikiProject but just barely passable as a Portal:, not because we can't have a page there if properly formed).{{pbr}}{{smaller block/s}}Hmm. Incidentally, or maybe more "tangentially", perhaps a better approach for ''Harper's'' would be [[Portal:Harper's Weekly]] as the main page, combined with each issue as a top level page ala. [[Harper's Weekly (March 18, 1893)]] and with subpages [[Harper's Weekly (March 18, 1893)/The Annexation Policy]] etc.? That would avoid having a constructed (non-scan-backed / transcluded) index portal type thingie at [[Harper's Weekly]], and avoid the multi-level subpage hierarchy, all in all making this simpler for all involved. The page-dab'ed-by-date also jibes well with how we dab other stuff.{{pbr}}And maybe we could divide the purpose of Portal: in two, narrowing Portal: into a more focussed topic hierarchy (LCCN etc.) and splitting off portals that are periodicals to a new sort of mainspace page (using a hypothetical {{tl|periodical header}} to differentiate).{{pbr}}Probably unworkable for some reason or other, but might be worth exploring if anybody has the spare cycles to think it through.{{smaller block/e}} [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:28, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*::Oh, but to be clear, I am not opposed to deleting [[Harper's Weekly Editorials by Carl Schurz]] outright, if that's the consensus, so long as we preserve the subpages somewhere. Moving it to Portal: is just an alternative to deletion; it can't stay in mainspace as is. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:50, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} I agree the wikipage at [[Harper's Weekly Editorials by Carl Schurz]] is out of scope and should be either deleted, migrate to a Portal:, migrate to a sub-page of [[Author:Carl Schurz]], or be converted into a [[Harper's Weekly]] (cf. [[Portal:Harper's Weekly]]).{{pbr}}The subpages then become just loose non-scan-backed texts with slightly confused provenance (e.g. at least one are from a later ''reprint'' of an editorial first published in ''Harper's''). Given our general practice with such texts I don't think deleting them is appropriate (we'd be being stricter with these than with others), so moving them to non-subpage titles or to titles within a magazine structure would be more appropriate.{{pbr}}Also, [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]], aka. [[User:Library Guy|Library Guy]], has been active here on and off for a very long time. It is likely that they will become active again at some point, and leaving notifications on their user talk pages may elicit a response. I think we should try to get their input as a long-time contributor before making a final call on this. --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 06:46, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
*:I have left a notification at the talk pages of both [[User:Bob Burkhardt|Bob Burkhardt]] and [[User:Library Guy|Library Guy]]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 09:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
:Agree with the general sentiment about being overly strict here. For works in periodicals, the boundaries between Author: subpages, Portal: and Main: generally we lack clear guidance for organizing and then linking the scattered works across issues (e.g. we have [[The Strand Magazine/The Hound of the Baskervilles]] in Main: but the Holmes's short stories in Portal: as well as in Author:). Other contributors haven't places their works from periodicals under the periodical either, e.g. [[Landon in The Literary Gazette 1821]]  isn't a subpage of ''The Literary Gazette'' or [[Her Chance (Wylie)]] isn't a subpage of ''Royal'' for example. I would be more in favor of tagging with a maintenance tag / having a discussion for improvement on the work talk page about how to improve things rather than deletion. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 15:56, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
::Landon is a separate problem. [[Landon in The Literary Gazette 1821]] claims to be transcluded from [[Index:Literary Gazette Titles.pdf]] and backed by [[:File:Literary Gazette Titles.pdf]], which is a PDF file containing only the title bits and obviously created in Word on the contributor's own computer (it's not a scan, it's self-generated PDF). The subpages, e.g. [[Landon in The Literary Gazette 1821/Stanzas On the Death of Miss Campbell]], are transcluded from [[Index:Landon in The London Literary Gazette 1821.pdf]] backed by [[:File:Landon in The London Literary Gazette 1821.pdf]], which is—you guessed it—a PDF file generated from a Word file "compiled by Peter J. Bolton". All of which were uploaded by {{ul2|Esme Shepherd}}, whose user page begins "My real name is Peter J. Bolton." That is, this is a user-created compilation of arbitrary excerpts, hidden behind a sheen of scan-backing. And this is just the tip of the iceberg: the user has a particular obsession with Landon and has been creating these self-published collections and custom editions for years. At some point we'll have to go through their entire contribution history to weed out these, but I just don't have the spare capacity to try to unravel this mess (and the contributor does not react well to stress, so both patience and a firm hand are needed). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 11:47, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
:::My general feeling is that these type of moves are handed by adding maintenance tags ({{tl|standardize}}?) rather than deletion if it is mostly around moving things around and creating the appropriate larger apparatus (portals, index pages, front matter and contents etc.) adding another big pile of work to the backlog... [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 01:52, 11 December 2023 (UTC)
** Not sure where [[User:Xover|Xover]] is coming from here. [[Landon in The Literary Gazette 1821/Stanzas On the Death of Miss Campbell]], is transcluded from [[Page:Landon in The London Literary Gazette 1821.pdf/4]], which is a scan from The London Literary Gazette 1821: 22nd Sept 1821, page 602, which is not a Word file at all and is far from arbitrary, having been searched out comprehensively. These texts are not my own work and this method was approved of in the first instance.[[User:Esme Shepherd|Esme Shepherd]] ([[User talk:Esme Shepherd|talk]]) 17:07, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
**:Looking at the mentioned [[Page:Landon in The London Literary Gazette 1821.pdf/4]], it seems to me that only the part titled "Original poetry" has been extracted from the newspaper, the text above seems added and if I were asked to guess, I would guess it was done in Word. The same can be said about all the pages of the "scans". Also the alleged [[Page:Landon in The London Literary_Gazette_1821.pdf/1|title page]] really looks like written in Word and so does the [[Page:Landon in The London Literary Gazette 1821.pdf/2|Contents]]. So it really looks like a self-made compilation of poems, not a published poetry collection. This can be very confusing to our readers, who have been accustomed to the fact that our indexes have been created from published works, and thus may assume that a collection called "Landon in The Literary Gazette 1821" was really published by somebody somewhere. Although it is beyond any doubt that the compilation was made in good faith, it should be deleted from both the main NS and the index NS (and maybe also from Commons?) as out of scope. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 17:40, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
**:: As those pages are not relevant for the question of the item under consideration, perhaps they warrant a separate discussion? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:50, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}}. And these could easily fit on an author page or author subpage, which is where these probably really belong IMO. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 04:35, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
*: Rather than outright deleting the page and its contents, there have been proposals to make it a Portal or an Author sub-page. Most of the discussion is now on ''how'' to handle the listing and its items.  The linked articles are currently organized as subpages, so deleting the base page would leave an auto-generated redlink to that location from each of the article pages.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:50, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:30, 12 January 2024 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:Acts of the Parliament of India 2017.pdf]]==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. User-compiled files are not published works, and therefore are not acceptable as sources.}}
I am pretty sure that this volume (and the 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2021 volumes) are not actual volumes, but user-created compilations. In any case, the original Web-site is broken (for some reason), so there’s no way to confirm. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 15:42, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

:The Indian Gazette site is currently https://egazette.gov.in/ - but I can't see any annual volumes of laws. -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 21:34, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

* {{comment}} These appear to be electronic-only publications, and never had a physical print, if I'm reading the website correctly.  As the files were uploaded by one of our administrators, I'm reluctant to delete based on a person's hunch. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 00:30, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
*:@[[User:Hrishikes|Hrishikes]]: Can you help clarify here? I see [[:File:Acts of the Parliament of India 2017.pdf]] lists a top level website as source (no direct link to this particular file), and has a Google Drive link outside the info template. What is the actual source of this file? Who is formal publisher of it? [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:21, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Xover}} -- Annual volumes have been officially published upto 2016 (https://lddashboard.legislative.gov.in/text-central-acts-year-wiseunder-updation). The volumes under discussion are user-made compilations of items electronically published in India's official gazette. I had made similar compilations for US and UK laws (e.g. [[Index:United States Statutes at Large Volume 132 Part 1.pdf]] and [[Index:The Statutes of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland 1802 (42 George III).pdf]]). No objection from me if deletion is decided. [[User:Hrishikes|Hrishikes]] ([[User talk:Hrishikes|talk]]) 13:07, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Hrishikes|Hrishikes]]: Thanks. User-compilations are out of scope, but it'd be a shame to not have some sensible structure around this. You wouldn't happen to have any ideas of what that might be? If they're published in the ''Gazette'', would it be practical to primarily use the issues of the ''Gazette'' as the content framing structure, and then possibly use a Portal: for a more index-like structure to replace these PDFs? [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 13:33, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Xover}} -- For every item within those compilations, Gazette links are available. You will get all the gazette links by opening the individual items under [[d:Q77828588]] (these are old links; now http to be replaced by https and nic.in by gov.in). Please inform if you want any specific action from me. [[User:Hrishikes|Hrishikes]] ([[User talk:Hrishikes|talk]]) 13:51, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{vd}}: the user-compiled files are not acceptable sources. BUT…{{pbr}}…the tables of contents of the files are probably a good Portal:, and the rest of the content of the files are individually hostable. I am consistently baffled whenever I try to navigate Indian legislative publications, but what seems to be going on is that each Act, when adopted, gets published ''individually'' as if it were itself an issue of their ''Gazette''. I ''think'' each act essentially becomes an issue of that year's volume of the journal. e.g. ''The Specified Bank Notes (Cessation of Liabilities) Act, 2017'' is [https://egazette.gov.in/WriteReadData/2017/174437.pdf No. 2] and "The Enemy Property (Amendment and Validation) Act, 2017" is [https://egazette.gov.in/WriteReadData/2017/174755.pdf No. 3]. That probably suggests a structure like [[The Gazette of India/2017/Issue 2]], with a redirect at [[The Specified Bank Notes (Cessation of Liabilities) Act, 2017]] (and possibly also a named subpage redirect for convenience of linking). --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:16, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 21:32, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</small>

== [[Wikimedian activist Adrianne Wadewitz dies]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted. [[WS:OR]] (copied from Wikinews),  As a WikiNews article, it belongs at WikiNews, it does not meet WS criteria for digital-born media hosted on WikiSource.}}
[[WS:OR]] (copied from Wikinews). [[User:沈澄心|沈澄心]] ([[User talk:沈澄心|talk]]) 07:50, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

:Oh, interesting issue. We do permit born-digital texts; but do we permit ones "published" on our own sister projects? Almost everything on [[Author:Adrianne Wadewitz]] is from [[w:WP:Signpost|The Signpost]] or foundationwiki. While still a wiki, ''The Signpost'' does operate along the lines of a traditional publication: it has a responsible editor, and its articles are essentially static after publication. On the other hand, we add very little value by mirroring wikipages from Wikipedia (or Wikinews) as wikipages on Wikisource. Personally I question whether we should include born-digital texts at all for that reason.{{pbr}}Note that if we should bend the rules for any works it's the ones we have for Awadewit. The works we have were added in a flurry after her untimely death, and there's a reason people were so engaged by that. She was… irreplaceable. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:01, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
:: {{vd}}, with all respect to Wadewitz of course...a very sad story.
:: In general, I don't think that a publication that happened on a wiki should be included, even if it had a formal editor, because they can (at least theoretically) be changed or updated at any point.
:: I'm not familiar with the Signpost really, since I'm not involved with Wikipedia. But, a closer look at [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2023-12-04/Essay&action=history some fairly recent] [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2023-12-04/In_the_media&action=history Signpost entries] as samples that the Signpost entries aren't even indef-protected, meaning that they can be edited by anyone at any time. And that particular page has been edited just yesterday, despite having been posted on December 5.
:: And in the case of posts that originated on Wikinews, well... I was never an editor there, so again, I'm going off of a lack of familiarity with their community. But, I believe they indefinitely protect any news articles they create a few days after they're released. Even despite that, it's still a wiki, and in theory an ''admin'' could still edit them, for maintenance etc. so I don't think Wikinews articles should be ''included'' just because of that unique protection practice of their wiki.
:: But in all manner of practicality, the articles are mirrors of existing wiki pages. I think that alone should make them beyond scope at least practically, because what's the use of having to repost a Signpost article or Wikinews article here every time they're created at their own respective sites? I think archiving is important, but Wikisource is certainly not the place for their archives. The Internet Archive, along with many other online archive projects for the web, are probably better fits if preservation alone is the goal of the hosting at WS. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 12:50, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
:{{vd}} Linking to the sister sites is supposed to be via WD, which removes the need to mirror content. We already reject and speedy delete as out of scope WP article mirrors that turn up here. I don't see that Wikinews (or ''Signpost'') should be treated any differently. At the distance of 10 years, the extensive list of off-site links on the related Author: page is also out of scope as a link farm and needs to be culled as we can't host the sources for another 85 years at a minimum. [[User:Beeswaxcandle|Beeswaxcandle]] ([[User talk:Beeswaxcandle|talk]]) 17:49, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Delete.''' Having looked over the remaining articles on her Author:-page, they should all be deleted, along with that page. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:45, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*: Not ''everything'' on the Author page.  We do have "[[Wikipedia is pushing the boundaries of scholarly practice but the gender gap must be addressed]]", which is a Featured Text. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 16:36, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: Actually, it was defeatured a few months ago, but nobody actually removed the template. As it is self-published (on her blog, I believe), it should also be deleted. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 16:42, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:It is a blog article, yes, but it's not her personal blog (she didn't have one), it is ''Impact of Social Science'' published by the London School of Economics. So it has a responsible editor, is published by an entity that would be considered a "reliable source" by Wikipedia, and not just anyone gets invited to write an article for this blog (Awadewit was an academic IRL, in addition to her Wikimedia-related work). But it ''is'' a blog, rather than an actual academic journal, and as [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan.Kamenicek]] has aptly pointed out in the discussion to de-feature the text their publishing criteria are not particularly stringent. I think that as long as we treat born-digital works as first class citizens this would necessarily be within scope; it's just that I am personally very sceptical that we ''should'' do so. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 22:05, 24 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*::Besides what has been mentioned above, I am very hesitant about including various blog and other purely Internet texts to Wikisource for one more reason: these sources are often not very stable, various unnoticed minor changes may be made there any time, or they can be completely rewritten without a trace of the previous text, or they may completely disappear overnight. So if such a text should be allowed here, we should require a link to its stable archived version. We might also start requiring an independent (admin?) confirmation that the added work is identical with this stable version to avoid future disputes if even such stable version disappeared for some reason. However, I would not be against their complete exclusion either. This does not apply to Wikinews or other Wikimedia projects articles, whose mirroring is quite useless and which should ''never'' be hosted here. (All this being written with deep respect to Adrianne Wadewitz.) --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 14:35, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:06, 15 January 2024 (UTC)</small>

== [[Translation:The Serfs]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Kept.  Scan of the original play is now fully proofread at sl.WS.}}
Quite a harsh judgement of this translation has been recently written at [[Translation talk:The Serfs]]. I cannot say whether it is right or not, but the truth is that the translation was not based on a scan-backed text at the Slovenian Wikisource, as required by [[WS:Translations#Wikisource original translations]], although the rule had been in effect for a long time when the translation was added here. So I suggest its deletion. -- [[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:31, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' That is, of course, the opinion of one person only. The page should be marked with {{tlx|TextQuality|50%}} and {{tlx|no source}}. The nature of translations is such that a knowledge of the original language is necessary to understand the accuracy of the translation, there will always be some who will not be able to tell whether the translation is accurate. If we allow translations, there will always be this issue; given that we allow them, that cannot be an objection to this work. Given that this translation predates the change in policy, it should be not be deleted on the grounds of the change in policy. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 00:43, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*:I thought I had written it clearly, but apparently I had not, so lets be more clear: it does not predate the change in policy, the policy was established long before this translation was added here (in fact the policy [[Wikisource:Requests for comment/Annotations and derivative works#Translations|was accepted]] in 2013, while the translation was added in December 2020). The denouncing comment was only the first impulse, and is used here as an argument together with violating the policy. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 11:09, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} The commentary on Talk pages is irrelevant for the discussion; we get comments like that posted on our scan-backed works as well.  Is there no scan available to be used, or has no one looked?  With a dramatic work, it should be relatively easy to transfer to the Page namespace of a scan. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:39, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*:The work present in Slovenian Wikisource ([[:sl:Hlapci]]) is not scan-backed. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:53, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*:The scan of the 1910 original can be [https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.a0009002411&seq=5 found in HathiTrust]. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:02, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*:* If someone is willing the upload a usable scan to Commons, it should not take long to salvage this play, and make it workable.  It has about 100 printed pages, with at least a dozen of those blank or merely the number of an act in the play.  With lines all beginning with the name of the character, quick work can be done. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:42, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:Is this [[:File:Ivan_Cankar_-_Hlapci.pdf]] OK? [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 18:39, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*It looks as though that file has all the text, but has had the covers and endsheets removed.  It should work for the text. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:49, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*:Transcluded from [[Index:Ivan Cankar - Hlapci.pdf]] as a start. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 23:04, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*:* Thanks.  I should have time to start working on this by the weekend, both here and on the home-language Wikisource. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 01:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:*:* I have proofread and transcluded all of Act I. at sl.WS, and it has been interesting to discover which commonly used templates they did not have.  --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:17, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 03:02, 27 January 2024 (UTC)</small>

== [[The Picture in the House (unknown)]] ==
{{closed/s|result=Deleted as redundant to a sourced version.}}
Duplicative of [[Weird Tales/Volume 3/Issue 1/The Picture in the House]], starting discussion to decide whether to remove or migrate the librivox recording. [[User:MarkLSteadman|MarkLSteadman]] ([[User talk:MarkLSteadman|talk]]) 06:43, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

:Gah. Tough call.{{pbr}}The two texts are not the same. Both ''Weird Tales'' in 1924 and the 1937 reprint use {{tqi|… the antique and repellent wooden building which blinked with bleared windows from between two huge leafless '''''oaks '''''near the foot of a rocky hill|q=y}}, but the unsourced text uses {{tqi|q=y|… '''''elms''''' …}}. LibriVox for once actually gives a source, and in the case of [[:File:LibriVox - picture in the house lovecraft sz.ogg]] that source is [[The Picture in the House (unknown)]] (modulo a page move after the fact here), and the audio narration does match (uses "elms"). The change to "elms" seems to be a later innovation, possibly applied by an editor as late as 1982 (''Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre'', the earliest use of "elms" there I could find right now), and the likely ultimate source of our text. The texts differ in other ways too, but up to this point the difference could be explained by transcription errors, lack of scan-backing and validation, etc.).{{pbr}}So… I don't think we can move the LibriVox file over to our new text (different edition). And because the nominated text is from an indeterminate edition and we have a scan-backed version of this work, we should {{vd}} [[The Picture in the House (unknown)]] too.{{pbr}}But it's really annoying that when LibriVox for once both gives the source text they have used for their reading ''and'' actually links back to us, we have to delete the page. I wish they'd coordinate more with us on issues like this so we could get the maximum benefit out of our respective volunteer efforts. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 08:38, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
::I guess that the LibreVox versions dates to when this was the only version available. Can we put the LibreVox link on [[The Picture in the House]] ? -- [[User:Beardo|Beardo]] ([[User talk:Beardo|talk]]) 18:33, 29 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Hmm, no, I don't think so. We can't start amassing random multimedia versions of texts at the dab pages. Eventually we want spoken-word versions of our texts automatically linked from data on Wikidata, and that requires control over which specific edition the spoken-word version is from. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 10:49, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} The earliest copy I found with "...elms..." is a [https://books.google.com/books?id=gK9EAAAAYAAJ ''Best Supernatural Stories of H.P. Lovecraft''] on Google books, p. 122, which the site dates to 1945. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 20:29, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
: weak {{vd}} - it would probably be better for us to just start from scratch, although I recognize its value as being linked to from LibriVox, so maybe it could just be redirected to the current scanned version instead of outright deleted. [[User:SnowyCinema|SnowyCinema]] ([[User talk:SnowyCinema|talk]]) 03:30, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
:* But start from scratch using what?  The issue is that our scan-backed copy has a different text from the LibriVox recording.  The text of the nominated copy ''can'' be attested, but not (yet) from a volume dated before 1945.  Ideally, we would find a PD volume with the current text. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 04:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:47, 7 December 2024 (UTC)</small>

==[[Index:The trail of the golden horn.djvu]]==
{{closed/s|result=Match-n-splitting texts from secondary transcriptions like Gutenberg or others to our Page:pages has been rejected and whenever this happens, the individual pages of the indexes (not the indexes) can be deleted.}}
This specific index is one of many such indexes; I nominate it as an example, but should the rationale be found sound, I will endeavor to make a list of all such indexes.

This index (and many others) were created by now-absent [[User:Languageseeker]]. My main concern is that the pages of these indexes have been added via match-and-split from some source, likely Project Gutenberg, which does not have a defined original copy. Because of this absence of real source, and the similarity of the text to the actual text of any given scanned copy, proofreading efforts would likely have to either not check the text against the original source or scrap the existing text entirely to ensure accuracy to the original on Wikisource. In light of this, I think the easiest approach is to delete the indexes and all pages thereunder; if there is organic desire to scan them at some point in the future, the indexes may be re-created, but I do not see a reason to keep the indexes as they stand. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 19:12, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
* {{comment}} Hmm. I don't see the Index: pages as problematic. But the "Not Proofread" Page: pages that were, as you say, created by [[Help:Match and split|Match & Split]] from a secondary transcription (mostly Gutenberg, but also other sources), I do consider problematic. We don't permit secondary transcriptions added directly to mainspace, so to permit them in Page: makes no sense. And in addition to the problems these create for Proofreading that TE(æ)A,ea. outlines, it is also an issue that many contributors are reluctant to work on Index:es with a lot of extant-but-not-Proofread (i.e. "Red") pages.{{pbr}}We have around a million (IIRC; it may be half a mill.) of these that were bot-created with essentially raw OCR (the contributor vehemently denies they are "raw OCR", so I assume some fixes were applied, but the quality is very definitely not Proofread). Languageseeker's imports are of much higher quality, but are still problematic. I think we should get rid of both these classes of Page: pages. In fact, I think we should prohibit Not Proofread pages from being transcluded to mainspace (except as a temporary measure, and possibly some other common sense exceptions). --[[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 20:24, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
**[[User:Xover|Xover]]: Assuming the status of the works to be equal, I would actually consider Languageseeker’s page creations to be worse, because, while it would look better as transcluded, it reduces the overall quality of the transcription. My main problem with the other user’s not-proofread page creations was that he focused a lot on indexes of very technical works, but provided no proofread baseline on which other editors could continue work—that was my main objection at the time, as it is easier to come on and off of work where there is an established style (for a complicated work) as opposed to starting a project and creating those standards yourself. As to the Page:/Index: issue, I ask for index deletion as well because these indexes were created only as a basis for the faulty text import, and I don’t want that to overlook any future transcription of those works. Again, I have no problem to work (or re-creation), I just think that these indexes (which are clearly abandoned, and were faulty ''ab origine'') should be deleted. As for transclusion of not-proofread pages, I don’t think that the practice is so widespread that a policy needs to implemented (from my experience, at least); the issue is best dealt with on a case-by-case basis, or rather an user-by-user basis (as users can have different ways of turning raw OCR into not-proofread text, then following transclusion and finally proofread status). But of course, that (and the other user’s works, the indexes for which I think should probably be deleted) are a discussion for another time. (I will probably have more spare time starting soon, so I might start a discussion about the other user’s works after this discussion concludes.) [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 02:28, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
**: I'm not understanding what fault there is in the Index page.  If the Page: pages had not been created, what problem would exist in the Index: page? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:53, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
**:*[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]]: This isn’t a case where the index page’s existence is inherently bad; but the pages poison the index, in terms of future (potential) proofreading efforts and in terms of abandonment. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 03:07, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
**:*:@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]]: Just to be clear, if the outcome here is to delete all the "Not Proofread" Page: pages, would you still consider the Index: pages bad (should be deleted)? So far that seems to be the most controversial part of this discussion, and the part that is a clear departure from established practice. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:40, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
**:*:*[[User:Xover|Xover]]: Yes, I think those are also bad. They were created ''en masse'' for the purpose of adding this poor match-and-split text, and there is no additional value in keeping around hundreds of unused indexes whose only purpose was to facilitate a project consensus (here) clearly indicates in unwise. The main objection on that ground is that indexes are difficult to make; but that is not really true, and in any case is not a real issue, as a new editor who wishes to edit (but not create an index) can simply ask for one to be created. Another problem with these indexes is that they are not connected with other information (like the Author:-pages) that would help new editors find them. Insofar as they exist like this, the only real connection these indexes have to the project at large is through Languageseeker, who is now no longer editing. I don’t think that every abandoned index is a nuisance, but I do believe that this (substantial) group of mass-created indexes is a problem. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 21:10, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
*I support deleting the individual pages of the index. As for the Index page itself, I am OK with both deleting it as abandoned or keeping it to wait for somebody to start the work anew. I also support getting rid of other similar secondary transcriptions. If a discussion on prohibiting transclusion of not-proofread pages into main NS is started somewhere, I will probably support it too. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 00:39, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I've always felt uncomfortable with the tendency of some users to want to bulk-add a bunch of Index pages which have the pages correctly labelled, but are left indefinitely with no pages proofread in them. I feel like a "transcription ''project''" (as Index pages are labelled in templates) implies an ongoing, or at least somewhat complete, ordeal, and adding index pages without proofreading anything is really just duplicating data from other places into Wikisource. Not to say there's absolutely no value in adding lots of index pages this way, but the value seems minimal. The fact that index pages mostly rely on duplicate data as it is is already an annoying redundancy on the site, and I think most of what happens on Index pages should just be dealt with in Wikidata, so I think the best place to bulk-add data about works is there, not by mass-creating empty Index pages. I know my comment here is kind of unrelated to the specific issue of the discussion (being, indexes with pages matched and splitted or something), but the same user (Languageseeker) has tended to do that as well. I am struggling to come up with any specific arguments or policies to support my position against those empty index pages... but it just seems unnecessary, seems like it will cause problems in the future, and on a positive note I do applaud Languageseeker's massive effort—it shows something great about their character as an editor—but unfortunately I think their effort should have been more focused on areas other than the creation of as many Index pages as possible. [[User:PseudoSkull|PseudoSkull]] ([[User talk:PseudoSkull|talk]]) 04:15, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
::Bulk-adding ''anything'' is probably a bad idea on Wikisource, because so much of what we do here requires a human touch. That being said, so far as I know the Index: pages Languageseeker created were perfectly fine in themselves, including having correct pagelists etc. This step is often complicated for new contributors, so creating the Index: without Proofreading anything is not without merit. It's pointing at an already set up transcription project onsite vs. just (ext)linking to a scan at IA for some users. The latter is an insurmountable effort for quite a lot of contributors. We also have historically permitted things to sit indefinitely in our non-content namespaces if they are merely incomplete rather than actually wrong in some way.{{pbr}}That's not to say that all these Index: pages are necessarily golden, but imo those that are problematic (if any) should be dealt with individually. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 09:08, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
:::Oh, also, what we host on Wikidata vs. what's hosted locally in our Index: pages is a ''huge'' and complicated discussion (hmu if you want the outline). For the purposes of ''this'' discussion it, imo, makes the most sense to just view that as an entirely orthogonal issue. If and when (and how and why and...) we push some or all our Index: page contents somewhere other than our current solution, it'll deal with these Index:es as well as every other. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:33, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
: {{comment}} I do not support creating them, but since they exist, I try to make good use of them. I usually proofread offline for convenience and when I add the text I check the diff. If anything differs, it is an extra check for me as I could be the one who made mistakes. So I would keep them.
:: BTW, nobody forbids to press the OCR button and restart. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 18:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
::: While that is true, my experience is that the kinds of errors introduced by a mystery text layer is insidious, and most editors are unaware of the issue, or fail to notice small problems such as UK/US spelling differences, changes to punctuation, minor word changed, etc.  So, while a person ''could'' reset the text, what would alert them to the fact that they ''should'', rather than working from the existing unproofed page?
::: H. G. Wells' ''First Men in the Moon'' is a prime example.  A well-meaning editor matched-and-split the text into the scan.  Two experienced editors crawled through making multiple corrections to validate the work, yet as recently as this past week we have had editors continue to find small mistakes throughout.  Experience shows that match-and-split text is actually ''worse'' for Wikisource proofreading than the raw OCR because of these persistent text errors. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 18:51, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
::::In my workflow, I start from OCR, then compare what I did with what is available. It is an independent reference which I use for quality check. The probability that I did the same error is low (and the error would be anyhow there). It is almost as if someone is validating my text (or vice-versa). For me it is definitely a help. I follow the same process when validating text. I do not look at what is there and then compare. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 19:21, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::Right. You do that, and I work similarly. But experience shows that the vast majority of contributors don't do that; they either don't touch the text due to the red pages, or they try to proofread off the extant text and leave behind subtle errors as EncycloPetey outlines. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 19:35, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
::::::We could argue forever. I do not know what evidence you have to say that works started from match-and-split are worse than others. I doubt anyone has real numbers to say that. IMHO it all depends on the attitude of contributors. I have seen works reaching a Validated stage and being crappy all the same. If you want to be consistent, you should delete all pages in a NotProofread state and currently not worked on because I doubt a non-experienced user will look where the text is coming from when editing, from a match-and-split or whatever.<br />
::::::Also, then we should shutdown the match-and-split tool or letting only admins to run it, after being 100% sure that the version to split is the same as the version to scan.<br />
::::::I am not advocating it as a process, I am only saying that what is there is there and it could be useful to some. If the community will decide otherwise, fine, I can cope with that. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 20:32, 10 December 2023 (UTC)
:::::::{{tqi|I do not know what evidence you have to say that works started from match-and-split are worse than others.|q=y}} Anecdotal evidence only, certainly. But EncycloPetey gave a concrete example (H. G. Wells' ''First Men in the Moon''), and both of us are asserting that we have seen this time and again: when the starting point is Match & Split text, the odds are high that the result will contain subtle errors in punctuation, US/UK spelling differences, words changed between editions, and so forth. All the things that do not jump out at you as "misspelled". Your experience may, obviously, differ, and it's certainly a valid point that we can end up with poor quality results for other reasons too.{{pbr}}Your ''argumentum ad absurdum'' arguments are also well taken, but nobody's arguing we go hog-wild and delete everything. Languageseeker, specifically, went on an import-spree from Gutenberg (and managed to piss off the Distributed Proofreaders in the process), snarfing in a whole bunch of texts in a short period of time. All of these are secondary transcriptions, and Languageseeker was never going to proofread these themselves (their idea was almost certainly to either transclude them as is, or to run them in the Monthly Challenge).{{pbr}}For these sorts of bulk actions that create an unmanageable workload to handle, I think deletion (return to the ''status quo ante'') is a reasonable option. The same would go for the other user that bulk-imported something like 500k/1 mill. (I've got to go check that number) Page: pages of effectively uncorrected OCR. For anything else I'd be more hesitant, and certainly wouldn't want to take a position ''in aggregate''. Those would be case-by-case stuff, but that really isn't an option for these bulk actions. [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 07:17, 11 December 2023 (UTC)


: {{comment}} I am agianst deleting the Index. Indexes are one of the most tedious work to do when starting a transcription. Having index pages prepared and checked against the scan will save a lot of work. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 21:46, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

* {{vk}} the Index, but {{vd}} the pages.  None of the bot-created pages have the header, which is a pain to add after-the-fact unless you can run a bot.  The fact that they were created by match-and-split, instead of proofreading the text layer is poor practice. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 19:15, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
*:There are many recently added "new texts" with no headers. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 22:00, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*:* What percent of editors want headers; and what percent do not care?  Do you have data? --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 22:03, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:No, I am only stating is not a good argument for deletion in my opinion, unless it is considered mandatory. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 22:22, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:* It is a good argument ''if'' most potential editors want to include the headers, and are put off working on proofreading by the fact that pages were created without the headers in place.  There are works I've chosen not to work on for this reason. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 23:04, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*::I agree that on its own the lack of headers is not a good argument for deletion. But I read it here to be intended as one additional factor on the scales that added together favour deletion. Which I do think is a valid argument (one can disagree, of course). [[User:Xover|Xover]] ([[User talk:Xover|talk]]) 23:57, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*[[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]]: That is the result of the efforts of one user, who has declared headers superfluous. I was going to start another discussion on that topic after this one (only one big discussion at a time for me, please). I think that, for all editors who want headers (most of them), not having them (because of the match-and-split seen here) is bad. Also, in response to your other comments above about proofreading over existing text, I usually do that as well, but I prefer proofreading on my own, without needing to check against a base—that’s why I focus on proofreading, not validation. For that same reason, I avoid all-not-proofread indexes like those at issue here. [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 23:22, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
*:*:I was thinking the same about headers, it would be good to have a consistent approach about works, in all their parts/namespaces. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 09:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

:{{comment}} in the future, if anyone feels blocked for the lack of headers, or wants to add headers, please make a bot request.[[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 09:47, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

:{{comment}} I am proofreading this specific text. This discussion can be as reference for the other indexes, as [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] mentioned at the beginning of the discussion. BTW, a list would be useful, so I can fetch before a (possible) deletion. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 12:53, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
*I have removed your discussion-closure notice, [[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]], because I created this discussion as a ''general'' issue, not tied to the ''specific'' index at hand. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]], just to be clear, you would like a list of the indexes with match-and-split pages, or would you like a more general listing of that user’s indexes? [[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] ([[User talk:TE(æ)A,ea.|talk]]) 01:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
*: Per the description at the top of this page: "This page is for proposing deletion of specific articles on Wikisource in accordance with the deletion policy, and appealing previously-deleted works." This discussion was closed because the decision was to '''Keep''' [[Index:The trail of the golden horn.djvu]] now that it is proofread.  Do you disagree with that decision?  Because this page is ''not'' for discussing general issues.  That needs to happen in the Scriptorium, not here. --[[User:EncycloPetey|EncycloPetey]] ([[User talk:EncycloPetey|talk]]) 02:47, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
*::@[[User:TE(æ)A,ea.|TE(æ)A,ea.]] those with match-and-split pages that could be deleted. [[User:Mpaa|Mpaa]] ([[User talk:Mpaa|talk]]) 20:48, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
*:::To sum it up, it seems to me that most contributors denounce match-n-splitting texts from secondary transcriptions like Gutenberg or others to our Page: pages. Unless objected, I am going to close this discussion with the conclusion that such attitude to transcriptions has been rejected and the individual pages of the indexes (not the indexes) can be deleted. --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 19:34, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
{{closed/e}}
:<small>This section was archived on a request by: --[[User:Jan.Kamenicek|Jan Kameníček]] ([[User talk:Jan.Kamenicek|talk]]) 20:47, 25 December 2024 (UTC)</small>